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Post by mjwillia on Nov 28, 2002 19:47:15 GMT -5
GREAT Letter UncleGordo!
WOW! That took a lot of work! If it is ok with you I want to include that with my thank you letters I am sending to Fox's advertisers!
Truely, awesome work! Thank you!
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Post by Ginny on Nov 28, 2002 21:49:15 GMT -5
A great letter, UncleGordo. Good facts, well constucted and well targeted. Hope you move the powers-that-be. I printed it out - and, assuming that you do not mind, will adapt some of the facts to my own letter of protect re: cancellation of Dark Angel and petition for its revival. Well done.
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Post by UncleGordo on Nov 28, 2002 23:59:43 GMT -5
Anyone who wants to use any the details in my News Corp letter feel free to do so. It is my intention to keep an ongoing file on the ratings/market share and total viewers for 24 and The Fireflop if it is returned to the schedule which I doubt if it does come back it better attract at 6 or 7 million viewers. I hope but I doubt that I will get any reaction from Vermin or Nevins but I hopeful of getting some response from Sandy Grushow or Andrew Butcher at News Corp especially if they looking for ammo to drop Vermin. But lets face facts that the numbers can be manipulated to show anything you want especially if you are using age demographics. Anyone who is interested should check out an article that is on the www.thefutoncritic.com relating to the November Sweeps it titled Network Execs Spin Sweep by Scott Collins dated Nov 27th
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Post by UncleGordo on Dec 7, 2002 16:25:18 GMT -5
I guess most everyone are aware that Fireflop was aired at 8:00PM last night, however the hiatus doesn't seems to helped improve the ratings. Here are the overnight numbers from the www.thefutoncritic.com for Friday. I think that we have probably seen the last of the Bug, we should send our condolences to Vermin and Fox. net. 8:00 8:30 9:00 9:30 10:00 10:30 avg. abc 5.6/10 6.0/10 3.7/6 3.3/6 5.2/9 6.1/11 5.0/9 cbs 6.4/12 6.4/11 6.3/11 6.4/11 4.3/7 4.4/8 5.7/10 nbc 6.9/12 7.3/13 7.1/12 8.0/13 10.6/18 11.5/20 8.6/15 fox 2.4/4 2.4/4 3.6/6 3.8/6 N/A N/A 3.0/5 friday's fast national ratings (18-49 demographic) net. 8:00 8:30 9:00 9:30 10:00 10:30 avg. abc 2.9 3.3 2.2 2.1 2.6 3.0 2.7 cbs 2.1 2.2 2.0 2.0 1.7 1.9 2.0 nbc 2.7 2.9 2.9 3.6 5.3 6.0 3.9 fox 1.9 1.9 3.0 3.1 N/A N/A 2.4
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Post by mjwillia on Dec 7, 2002 16:47:19 GMT -5
UncleGordo!
Just the news to brighten the Holidays! I guess Santa got my letter!
I want to personally thank you for your very very hard work on this! THANK YOU!
Now it is time for all of us to band together and begin a new letter writing campaign using "talking points" from your hard work! You have given us a lot to work with!
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jasd
Newbie
Posts: 5
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Post by jasd on Dec 7, 2002 20:39:14 GMT -5
I don't know if this little story has made it's way to the DA community: Jay Dubya has done everything to keep the bug on air. He inserted some of his favorite plot gimmicks into the latest episode (kill and resurrect a main character, put in some girl-on-girl action). He insulted the cast and crew of his other shows (by calling them second class) to hype the cast and crew of the bug. They even had to show up on the Serenity set for plot "discussion" meetings - while Jay Dubya directs an episode of the bug. The cast of Buffy degraded from artists to simple recipients of orders - that's nice, isn't it? They are working for him for seven years now, and without Gellar, Boreanaz, Hannigan, Head and Carpenter, BtVS would be a long forgotten mid-season show on The WB. And the only people who would remember Jay Dubya would be some die-hard Roseanne fans (he wrote many scripts for that show). I read somewhere (at rec.arts.tv) that the bug is about loyality. I doubt it, since Jay Dubya doesn't even has the tiniest clue about the concept of loyality - how could he write about it? He alienates two networks (The WB and UPN), who are paying millions for Angel and Buffy, by concentrating all of Mutant Enemy's resources on the bug (no matter how important their work for Angel or Buffy is - if there is something to be done for the bug, the best writers and directors have to move over). When he opens his mouth the next time, he will insert both feet and fall on his ass. Hard. And if you'll see Gail with a broken nose - you'll know what happened. Yes, I know, this isn't that interesting for you DA fans. But I want to explain why it was a good thing that the bug was on the air so long, why it was great that Fox ordered two additional episodes: It makes it impossible for Jay Dubya and Mutant Enemy to save one of their other shows. Angel and Buffy will go off with a wimper this season, the question isn't if they will be renewed for another season, but if they will be on air until May or get the axe earlier on. And since the only way to rectify the destruction caused by a certain Buffy episode which aired last May is the destruction of Mutant Enemy, I have to admit that I really like the current situation. And I really like yesterday's rating: 2.4/4. That's a call for the axe on every network, even loser UPN couldn't afford to keep such a show. Heck, The WB has cancelled Birds of Prey after a 2.7 - and they had much better average ratings, not to mention the ultimately better premise, concept and perspective. 2.4 - that adds insult to injury. It's the difference between failing and failing miserable. It shows ignorance and incompetence. It's called Karma. And Karma's a bitch. Sorry for the rambling. bye - just a straight dog
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Post by Star on Dec 7, 2002 20:58:28 GMT -5
This news is bittersweet - sweet in that,as you saidm karma is coming around in the end, but bitter in that DA was cancelled because of this crap. sighs
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Post by UncleGordo on Dec 8, 2002 1:01:48 GMT -5
This is the letter that I sent to JC with the copy of the Newscorp Letter dated Nov 29th in which I did the ratings/market share comparison of the 3 series DA, 24 and the Fireflop. PART 0NE November 29, 2002 James Cameron Industrial Velvet 919 Santa Monica Blvd. Santa Monica, CA 90401 U.S.A. Subject : THE DARK ANGEL Dear Mr. Cameron I would like to take this opportunity to commend you and Charles Eglee for developing the truly original and unique concept which is THE DARK ANGEL and the character of MAX GUEVARRA, I can’t tell how much I enjoyed the series, I was able to see each and every episode. Granted I enjoyed some episodes more so than others, the episodes that truly hit home for me were the ones that dealt with Max, her interaction and relationships with the other characters of the series, her independence, leadership, determination, compassion, and her efforts to find and protect her “family”. This series was one of a kind, I freely admit that I am a long time television junkie and I can not recall a series that dealt with such socially charged issues, as the controversies of illegal diversion of government revenues to fund scientific experimentation on humans, corrupt politicians, and a police department that was open to bribery, and extortion, secret cults that had infiltrated and hi-jacked various government agencies. THE DARK ANGEL gave us an altruistic hero (not too many of those around anymore), a heroine who was struggling to discover her own humanity, after having been created in a covert government laboratory and with her and her brothers and sisters being indoctrinated as a genetically engineered soldiers from childhood, you managed to tell this exceptional story without preaching from a soap box, and in the context of a very entertaining and enlightened series, in a futuristic time period but it is still relevant to our current society. I was and still am shocked and outraged that the series was cancelled by the Fox Network, I have just completed an extensive analysis and comparison of the ratings and market share of three of the Fox Network series THE DARK ANGEL, TWENTY-FOUR and THE FIREFLY which I have incorporated in a letter to the News Corp Ltd. a copy of which I have enclosed for your perusal, and I hope that you might find my analysis and arguments have some relevant validity and might be of some use if you were ever to consider a re-commitment to THE DARK ANGEL. Quite frankly I am dumbfounded at the decisions by the powers to be at Fox relating to the three series over the past two and a half years. As much as I enjoyed the series, and yours and Charles Eglee’s contributions to the development of the THE DARK ANGEL, I realize that at the time of the Fox Network’s cancellation announcement you had ongoing projects that you were involved with, however I am still unable to come to terms with the haste that you were able to walk away from this project, it seemed to me, and I might be totally wrong that you couldn’t get away from THE DARK ANGEL fast enough. In my opinion this series deserved a much better fate than what the Fox Network gave this series, I would have hope with your past and ongoing relationship with Fox Entertainment that they would have given the series and you much more consideration, providing you were interested in continuing with the series, and if that was the case I would have fought tooth and nail to keep it on the air.
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Post by UncleGordo on Dec 8, 2002 1:08:33 GMT -5
This is the letter that I sent to JC with the copy of the Newscorp Letter dated Nov 29th in which I did the ratings/market share comparison of the 3 series DA, 24 and the Fireflop. PART TWO This series has a truly exceptional concept and should have been renewed without question. I as an active member of THE SAVE THE DARK ANGEL CAMPAIGN I have and will continue to do everything within my power to resurrect this series, I realize that the cast and crew have been released long ago from their contracts and many including you and Jessica Alba “THE DARK ANGEL “ have gone on to other projects but that does not preclude a new commitment to THE DARK ANGEL whether it a 3rd season, mini series, or feature movies. As to a movie I refer to a comment you were quoted as making to Cinescape and reported in a Jam TV/Toronto Sun article dated September 14/01, that if the series was successful you would consider doing a movie. In the opinion of many members of our campaign we believe that THE DARK ANGEL was indeed a success and the pilot episode was considered by Time Magazine as the 10th best program of the year, and the web site www.thefutoncritic.com stated that the series was the 9th value series on the air in 2001. Frankly it is my opinion that the series in the latter part of the 1st season and definitely at the beginning of the 2nd season the original concept of the series was hi-jacked by Rene Echevarra your Co-Executive Producer and Gail Berman the incoming president of the Fox Network who was appointed in May 2000. It is quite obvious that she had her own pre-determined disposition for the series which had absolutely no relationship to the ratings/market share that the series earned during both seasons that it was on the air. THE DARK ANGEL attracted an audience of 10.24 million viewers in the 1st and 6.02 million in the 2nd season of its’ airing, much superior ratings and market share than the programming that replaced THE DARK ANGEL in the same time slots in each season. The Fox Network has shown total contempt and were guilty of the complete betrayal of the viewing audience of this series. Another factor that I simply do not understand, with JESSICA ALBA and the series THE DARK ANGEL having such an extensive international fan base that News Corp Ltd. the corporate parent of the Fox Network would have been salivating at the prospects and potential of THE DARK ANGEL a signature or franchise program, which was and is quite capable of providing excellent entertainment for at least five years or more. Yours truly
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Post by schmidty54 on Dec 8, 2002 1:31:22 GMT -5
Who here has actually seen an episode of Firelfy? Anyone? Let me start off by saying that I love Dark Angel just as much as any of you. I'm still very upset with it's cancellation. I'm extremely pissed that Fox has never, and will never, give us a concrete reason to their decision. And most of all, I'm fed up with television executives' obsession with ratings.
What bothers me the most, however, is how people who have never given Firefly a chance, can come in here and rip the show to shreds. What grounds could you possibly have to declare Firefly as crap? I know for a fact that not one of you is an ignoramis (sp). I've read your posts. But to make an unfair judgement on a show that you've never seen? That's an act of ignorance.
From someone who has an incredibly high standard for art and television, I will pronounce this: Firefly is the BEST current program on television. It makes just about every other show that I've seen on the air look "dumb." It's brilliant in every aspect. Please understand, I miss Dark Angel ...a lot. But if Dark Angel was still on the air, and Firefly aired directly after it, do you think you'd still be making these same judgements? For your sake, I hope not.
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Post by Star on Dec 8, 2002 2:00:28 GMT -5
FYI I have attempted to watch an episode of FF and I couldn't keep my eyes open long enough or find enough of interest in it to make it through more than 20 minutes of it.
I have also read the script of the Pilot (which was never aired) and frankly could not make heads or tails of whatever it was that JW was trying to say. Other than that it seemed to be a complete rip off of Star Wars, Bonanza, Lost in Space blah blah blah only not even as a coherent whole of any one of them - more as a collection of bits and pieces of every Western and every space show JW had ever seen in his life.
So when I call it crap it is with complete knowledge of what it was and even if DA was still on I wouldn't be wasting any of my time on it.
JW is a one trick pony whose one trick has become worn out and old at this point.
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Post by thalia on Dec 8, 2002 2:04:22 GMT -5
I saw the first two episodes to give it a chance. Sorry, but it didn't appeal to me at all.
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Post by Ginny on Dec 8, 2002 12:24:02 GMT -5
I'm not sure how many episodes of Firefly I have seen - probably at least 5. I disagree with Schmidty54's opinion that it is the best show on TV right now.
Without a Trace is excellent; much better done dramatically. I prefer a few other programs also.
The acting in Firefly is not bad, but I do not see it as exceptionally good either - pretty much par-for-the-course. I forget most of the characters' names. The woman who portrays the "companion" is beautiful. I enjoy the woman who plays the mechanic, and one who plays the co-captain ( I think she's 2nd in command).
The premise is boring. Independent contractors looking for jobs (no questions or morals considered) on the outskirts of a dominated universe. No overriding story to keep one interested. One can come in on any episode and it's understood. The actors have to carry it with the force of their personalities. From what I have seen, not one of them has yet that kind of appeal.
The captain is essentially a stereotype - and one that John Wayne did much better. Haven't seen much humor on the show to keep me smiling either.
It may not be so bad as some have described it, but Firefly is a long way from a good show - and certainly is not "among the best". It is not good enough to make me change my schedule or be sure to get a copy of each episode or to wonder what I missed if I miss an episode.
It certainly doesn't have the appeal or interest or humor or the characters or even the appeal of the actors (John Savage, Jensen Ackles, Valerie Rae Miller, Byron Mann, "Bling", "Dr. Carr" , "Dr. Shankar", "Zack", and of course, the two leads) that Dark Angel had.
Tastes differ.
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Post by schmidty54 on Dec 8, 2002 12:52:12 GMT -5
Yes, tastes do differ. And I really respect those of you who didn't over react to my post and throw negative jander at me. This is a class act board. I'm glad to see that some of you have given Firefly a chance. And hey, if it's not your cup of tea, so be it.
Long live this board, long live all of you, and long live our constant fight to keep Dark Angel alive.
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Post by Star on Dec 8, 2002 15:39:36 GMT -5
Yes, tastes do differ. Long live this board, long live all of you, and long live our constant fight to keep Dark Angel alive. So let's all agree to disagree about FF and agree to agree (LOL) on DA and hope that maybe someday we will get that movie or mini-series to give some closure to the stories and charactes that we all for whatever reasons came to love.
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