The Eye of RA - DA symbolism

[Scirta]

Fist season DA was full of symbolism. Some of it has already been discussed, but as we might get more soon at the end of the second season, this is the place to talk about it. I'll post as soon as I catch up with things.
Interpret away!

[Star]

I'm going to post the discussion that was started on LCB about this:

Scirta
I'm probably out of synch here, but well, a comment by hallenwen made a lightbulb go on. It probably went on for others last year, but hey, I'm just watching The Kidz are aiight here.

Hallenwen noted the necklace/locket symbolism in Art Attack and Hello Goodbye:  "the necklace is a symbol of the eternity of connection between Max and Logan. From Art Attack till H/G, we see Max and Logan in the same room with a neclace. it does not only speak of Max' love for Logan but Logan's love for Max."

That got me thinking about Bast in the pilot. Since Bast is the protector of the ruler (some cheesy thoughts pop up in my mind regarding the ruler but I won't mention them), the avenger, the eye of Ra (well, in our case, the leg/s of Ra...), Max's stealing the statue has a symbolic meaning.

So, Max has cat DNA. The goddess Bast is portrayed as a cat. The statue symbollically protects EO. Max wants to steal it. As Max knows about the meaning of Bast I don't think it is too far fetched to say that she at least partially and subconsciously identifies herself with Bast. And that is the real reason for stealing it. Just as the ep says: smth like - "so what, you wanted it cause it was shiny ?" "No, because it is Bast, protector and avenger." This mythical protection "job" however is not ritually correct if done by stealing. It has to be a ritual of offering and accepting protection. Max has to leave Bast behind. But Logan leaves the statue in her room and thus offers her the possibility to accept the role of the protector that Bast brings with her.  Max pawns the statue - symbolic of her reluctance to internalize the role of the protector, but then Logan gives it to her again, under different circumstances.

This time she accepts it and there she is, the modern incarnation of the cat goddess Bast, protector and avenger of the ruler/EO and tru him the downtrodden.

This makes me think however, can her intention to steal it be interpreted as subconscious wish to assume that role, to really use her abilities ? Or even to find herself under the protection of the goddess ? It all depends on the pov.

And of course that ties in quite nicely with the Familiar plot and the whole cult thing etc, leaving a lot of space for fanfic (evil grin) or episode development. Especially since they go on how Max is "special" among the transgenics. It occurred to me that in Blah Blah Lydecker is looking for Max specifically. He gets Zack and is ok with it, but I get the strong impression that he really wanted Max. He knows how both Max and Zack look but only puts a wanted ad out on Max. Why would that be ?

Am I making any sense here ? The caffeine will be my death one day. If this has already been said, please let me know, if not, I really would like to think what your opinion is on that.

[Star]

SisterMoon
scirta, you're making perfect sense.  I like this a lot.  I always wondered why they chose the Bast statue and this is an interesting explanation.

I also like the idea that Max accepted a protector's role.  That fits perfectly with everything she does in the second half of the pilot and the last scene, where she agrees to a partnership with Logan.  

I wonder if we will ever see Bast again ...

Scirta
Somehow I think that BAst and the protector role she assumes - in the image of a cat -  can really further the Familiar plotline.  There are just too many coincidences there. The cat cocktail, Bast the goddess-cat, the cult thing, the symbols Lydecker finds and that can be traced to well, way back. Since I haven't seen season 2 and i do try to read the transcripts on the most superficial level so as not to spoil myself totally it's kinda hard to put this together. Actually, I was thinking of a small piece of fic, but right now it's kinda hazy. So if not in an actual ep, at least in fic, Bast will be among us soon.

I've done some reading on Bast and some less scientific articles even mention two avatars: one as the domestic cat, the other as the wild cat. That could be food for thought in the context of M's relationship with Logan and her comment "The bitch is back". Too bad English doesn't have a derogatory term for female cats, only for female dogs...

Well, the really scientific articles say that does not apply so there it all goes out the window.

This long rant is caused by the fact that the whole weekend i constantly came across mentions of Bast, Egyptian religion and cats. I really mean constantly and in really different contexts, it was almost scary. I had never heard of Bast before DA and then in one day it was everywhere I looked. Can someone please say I make absolutely no sense and save me out of this Bast loop. I'm really scared, I have a seminar on ancient civilizations in a few minutes. ;D

Star24
Sorry scirta can't help you there. It was always my impression that the choice of Bast as the statue in the Pilot was deliberate - cat goddess, cat DNA etc.

And Ra - isn't Ra the sun god? Somehow when I think of Ra I think of the term golden. Living high above and looking down on the everyday world. Logan - golden in coloring (well blonde) lives in his penthouse  high above and removed from the ordinary daily world. Also golden in the sense of his wealth.

I thought S1 DA had tons of literary and mytholgical references. We definitely had the hero one over and over - "the lone crusader tilting at windmills" "the heart of darkness" even the X-Men refs in IAIAAC.  

Somewhere in the LCB discussions which catherder is finding and reposting there are a few about the hero symbolism in DA.  They may even tie into what you have brought up in your post. It will be interesting to read them again.

Kasman
Wow, love that symbolism.  Bet it never gets tied in to S2 though... there is no continuity.  I think Max identifies with Bast at some level, even if just because of the feline DNA, and she certainly becomes a protector.  Logan as Ra - I like it.

[Star]

Okay guys - discuss away!

[catherder]

From The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets: RA is described as :The "divine man-child, the heir of eternity, self-begotten and self-born"

Also, "His image is not spread out in books....He is too mysterious that his glory should be revealed, too great that men should question concerning him, too powerful that he should be known. One falleth down dead on the spot for terror, if his mysterious, unknowable name is pronounced. No god can address him by it, him with the spirit, whose name is hidden, for that he is a mystery." (Adolf Erman, The Literature of the Ancient Egyptians, NY, Benjamin Blom, Inc. 1971, 296, 299-300)

Hmm, self-begotten and self-born? Sounds like some one who invented himself. Unknowable name? Secret identity? Whose name is hidden?  And didn't McGinnis (in Designate This) refer to Logan as "the great and powerful Eyes Only"?

Geez, who does that sound like? Scary.

Also: "He hath no mother, who might have given him his name...He who hath shaped his egg himself, the mighty one of mysterious birth, who (himself) created his beauty." (The Book of the Dead)

I'll let you make of that what you will. Have fun.

[catherder]

Concerning Bast (from the same source): "Bast, the Cat-mother of the city of Bubastis, was the benevolent aspect of Hathor, the Lioness."


So we have the two aspects of the cat goddess. And we sure know that sometimes Max is a girl thingycat and sometimes she is a lioness.

[Kasman]

Wow, those two quotes are just so spot on.  

[Scirta]

Forever Eyes asked what kind of connections I could see btween Bast/Max and the Familiars with their cult.
I don't like the Familiar plot line either. I'm not in much of a position to talk about it since I only kinda skimmed through the transcripts. But since the writers keep coming out with cult stuff, mysterious runes, rituals and ancient secret society type of things I figured the origins of the Familiars have to go way back and could be tied to ancient Egypt and priests of Bast. I'm just trying to come up with a way to explain the link - if there is one - between Bast the cat goddess and Max the part cat transgenic. I think it was Max who at one point said that people back then didn't exactly have the hardware to do genetic crossings and then Logan adds they might have found ways around that.
This theory is still hazy and I guess it's my fault I'm trying to  make sense of a plot that has no sense. ;D

On another matter. Thanks, catherder for the posts of previous discussions. I really enjoy them and that way I can  appease my conscience on the topic of spending time on DA instead of hitting the books. The part on the Byronic hero was wonderful. Then you had me on the floor with the description of Ra.

"self-begotten and self-born" fits with the little we know about his past. As you said, he did "invent himself" and if then it comes out in soap-opera style that Logan is adopted.... well we either have a soap opera or an incredible laugh. I definitely hope not.

Oh..."the great and powerful Eyes Only", that is scary. If one tries reaaaaally hard, this part "He who hath shaped his egg himself, the mighty one of mysterious birth, who (himself) created his beauty." (The Book of the Dead) can be brought into connection with the exoskeleton. But one would have to try really hard.
                       
I did have fun!

About the cat/lioness avatars. That does fit Max, doesn't it.  And who cares about the more scientific variant as long as it fits our little interpretation game?

Somewhere I mentioned the newer interpretation of Bast as the protector of the home and of new life/pregnant women. Max was apalled at the idea of being mommy to the Red soldiers. Too bad, seems she is mommy for the transgenics now.

To finish this looong post. Let's pretend, just for the sake of argument and fun, that M/L are modern reincarnations of Bast/Ra. Course, they are fallen gods, tarnished, fitting the decrepit age they live in. What kind of possibilities would that open ?

Can we actually infer that some DA writer has spent a lot of time reading on acient mythology and things are seeping in on purpose or not ? Nah, too much to ask for when we actually have the Transgenics of the Week.

[Star]

Ah but remember this stuff goes back to the Pilot and last season. The writing was a lot more sophisticated then and included a lot of literary references. So it is very possible that the Bast/Ra comments were deliberate.

Remember we also got last season:

"I always thought of you as  more the lone warrior type tilting at windmills" (Don Quixote reference)

"...he went straight for the heart of darkness" (Joseph Conrad reference - Heart of Darkness)

The obvious parallel of the Pollo Loco ending with Ben and Max to Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men

The Lord of the Flies beach scene - reflected by the young X5 hunt scene in Pollo Loco

and I know there are more.

[Scirta]

Thanks, Star. It means there is still hope ?! 8)
I went to look up Chitarus in various forms and spellings. Nothing. Well, there is the island of Kythera with the famous Aphrodite temple. But should I even go there ?

[SisterMoon]

There are also a lot of Bible references in S1.  Art Attack is full of them.

Start with the Jam Pony scene, where Normal is losing it.


NORMAL:  I just called you and the rest of your colleagues here idiots. It’s from the Greek idiotes, as in one afflicted by idiocy, a feeble-minded person having a mental age not exceeding three years.

MAX: Who the hell do you think you are, talking to us like that?

NORMAL: Your boss. Now bip bip bip!

ORIGINAL CINDY: I want an apology.

NORMAL: Is that right?

ORIGINAL CINDY: Now.

NORMAL: All right. Perhaps I was unduly harsh calling you people idiots -- when in fact you’re morons. From the Greek moros, as in feeble-minded, or mental defective, having an age of between eight and twelve, capable of doing menial tasks under supervision. Now get out of my sight! Or you’re all fired.


This exchange does so many things.  It's funny, it sets up the tension between Normal and Cindy for the rest of the episode, and it gets you completely in a Jam Pnny comedy mood, so that the sight of Max and Logan all dressed up two scenes later is especially breathtaking.

And it also foreshadows something later in the ep.  Max is at the architect's office and has pulled him back from the ledge:


(Max starts to leave.)

BIONDELLO:  Wait! You’re the messenger, aren’t you?

MAX: Yeah.

BIONDELLO: Well, I’ve never been a believer, but you coming here personally to straighten me out.  Thank you.


The Greek word "aggelos" means "messenger, one who is sent."  It's also the root of our English word "angel."  Max is messenger/angel on many levels.

More Bible stuff going on in this episode:  Logan refers to "walking on water" in the final scene.  And, Jesus performed his water-into-wine miracle at a wedding, and here's Max, at a wedding, solving a crime, saving several lives, getting in Daphne's way, and -- saving the best for last -- at the end Logan first realizes he can feel something in his legs, thanks to Max's healing blood.

[Forever_Eyes]

The Bast symbolism is so interesting, isn't it?  (So are all the others, but this one has me captivated right now.)

Bast is the protector, destroyer, and avenger (of Ra).
I think Max can fit those attributes fairly well.

-Protector: She not only protects Logan, but her family, friends, and in s2, the transgenics.

-Destroyer: (this would be in reference to the one she is protecting.  For the Eye of Ra, Bast acts as his personal "hitman," destroying his transgressors.)  Destroy is a harsh word, but Max did "destroy" Manticore after Logan was inflicted with the virus. Logan was going to anyway, but she was the one to "push the button."  (Had Logan not been infected, she may have chosen to try to stop Logan from broadcasting.)  Max has also "destroyed" some of Logan's/society's enemies through her EO work.

-Avenger: I like this one.  To avenge is to "take vengence on behalf of," or to "exact satisfaction (for a wrong) by punishing the wrongdoer."  I think Max spent most of s1 avenging Logan's paralysis, which she internalized as being her fault.  Not only did she "take vengence" from Logan's enemies, but in some ways she too vengence on herself through her guilt and the way she continually convinced herself that she couldn't be with him.  It actually ties in s2 with the way she keeps herself distanced from him to protect him.  avenging to protect.  Max, the avenging angel.

You all have made such good points.  Symbolism can run incredibly deep.  I've been so interested in the Bast/Max connection that I haven't even stopped to think of all the correlations involved with the Eye of Ra, not to mention all the literary symbolism Star mentioned.

[catherder]

Scirta --  The reason you couldn't find a referecen to Chitarus is because they got the name wrong. It should have been Chiparus -- Here's some information.

Chryselephantine sculptures are the esoteric and often erotic soul of Art Deco. The word comes from the Greek, "chryso" meaning gold and "elephantine" meaning ivory the modern meaning applies to the combination of ivory and any other substance.
Inspired by the 1920's, art deco sculpture is naturalistic, hieratic, stylized, humorous and occasionally erotic. Art Deco sculptures were often exquisitely carved and cunningly designed, a combination so satisfying that it contained within itself a strongly addictive element. Those who bought one then bought another and still another.

In an era when so many of the pompous claims of scribbler-seekers for this or that Great Work of Art have been deflated, the smaller-scale merits of Chryselephantine figures of the twenties and thirties have come into their own. They reflect and incorporate many of the artistic discoveries and preoccupations of the early part of the twentieth century as they were interpreted for the bourgeois sensitivities of the day and as such are a precious link with their time. Unpretentious and certainly highly decorative, they have become accepted far more widely than at the time of their first inception.

One of the most prominent sculptures was Dimitri Chiparus, a Rumanian who came to Paris to study, settled there became a naturalized Frenchman, Gallicised his name to Demetre, married and raised a family there. He was amazingly prolific, working mostly from the firm of Edmond Etling though he also supplied several other editors with models, including those of Arthur Goldscheider, and Les Neveusde J Lehmann, the latter often editing some large, complex designs in association with Etling whose foundry facilities were primitive by comparison with those of LNJL.

[catherder]

More on Chiaprus:

Chiparus executed a vast number of sculptures of children, some of which are affecting and charming, but others are hideously and mawkishly sentimental. He also produced a large number of religious sculptures, Pierrots and Columbines. At his best, he produced a considerable body of work, which synthesizes a vast array of influences and sources. Some of his sculptures are based on heroines of the Bible, mythology, literature and folklore, but the majority are dancing figures which strut, pose, pirouette, kick; they wear clothes that sway, envelop, swirl, or hug the body like a second skin. Attempts have been made to associate some of these figures with known stars of the Ballet or music hall: The Sisters is sometimes referred to as the Dolly Sisters, Ballets Russe is sometimes said to represent Nijinsky and Ida Rubenstein, but there is no evidence to support those attributions. Chiparus's sculptures are above all types not individuals.

The return to favor of Chryselephantine sculpture has inevitable produced a pecking order of collectability. The most desirable names are Chiparus and Preiss, the former for his most spectacular sculptures, often quite big, collected in their day by Indian Nawabs and Maharajahs, nowadays by the very lucky or the merely very rich: spectacular statements in otherwise plain or minimalist interiors fashionable in Japan, German or the United States: Preiss for the superlative quality of craft-man-ship allied to a vision which anticipates hyper-realism. Art Deco Chryselephantine sculpture may be differentiated into four basic streams, hieratic, naturalistic, erotic and stylized, although obviously all have some degree of stylization and some artists worked in more then one style.

Chiparus and Colinet are the finest exponents of the style, combining exoticism with a nineteen-twenties mixture of science fiction and visual streamlining. The most important sculptor of the naturalistic stream was Preiss, exceptional as a direct carver as well as in the range of his designs. The actual carving of the ivory is exquisite, graceful, the muscle-tone subtly delineated.

Anyway, I found a Chiparus catalog at an antique show last year. The statues were wonderful -- ivory and gold. Nothing like the Bast statue though, alas. But the statue was very similar to what Chiparus produced.

Just a little OT trivia.

[catherder]

Here is some more archetyping for you: The Fisher King.

Thje Fisher King is the guardian of the Grail. Having received a wound which never heals, the King is kept in a state of suspended life, and the land around his castle becomes barren. Behind the figure of the wounded king is that of Christ himself, and his [i.e., the Fisher King] wound is supposed to have been inflicted by the spear of Longinus, the soldier who pierced Christ's side. The Grail King suffered from a wound, either in the thighs or more specifically in the genitals, which was caused through loss of faith or the performance of an evil act.

Archetype, anyone?