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Post by Star on Oct 31, 2002 19:23:34 GMT -5
I've copied this post for those who might have missed it - certainly seems worth a try. Anyone want to design a postcard to Levis pointing our the positives of DA? * * * * * Posted by Web Warlock: The first target is Levi Strauss and Co. makers of Levi Jeans and Dockers. Ok, how will this help? Levi’s has a strong stance on social responsibility. We need to point out to them that we are not watching FireFly (and Buffy, they advertise with both) because of the shows treatment of women and minorities. Examples: On FF we have a woman who is a prostitute and this is considered to be the most honorable profession a woman can be in. We have another woman that began the show being tortured. We have another woman that was given away as a gift. We have a religious man that seems to exsist only as the verbal punching bag of the shows “angry atheist hero”. On Buffy women are also degraded, raped, murdered or beat down on a regular basis. A disproportionate number of minorities are killed (women, lesbians, African Americans, Gays) while white heterosexual males not only rarely die, the ones that do get to come back to life. (as a white heterosexual male I find this very offensive). How can we use this to get Dark Angel back? Point out the positive portrayals (which many of you can do better than me) but off of the top of my head there is a courageous young woman that is fighting for her rights, the male hero of the show is admired for his intellect and the fact that he is wheel-chair bound is only use to show the strength of his character, a positive portrayal of African American gay woman. Not to mention the entire “normals” vs. “freaks” dichotomy of the future can be seen as an portrayal of everyone’s essential rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Tell Levis you are not watching Firefly or Buffy nor will you buy their jeans or other products. However if they were to put the financial backing of their company behind a new series or TV movie for DA you would be more than thrilled to support them with your money. Here is a link to their homepage on "Social Responsibility" www.levistrauss.com/responsibility/WORLDWIDE AND U.S. HEADQUARTERS Levi Strauss & Co. 1155 Battery Street San Francisco, CA 94111 U.S.A. Dan Chew Vice President, Worldwide and U.S. Communications Tel: (415) 501-1380 Jeff Beckman Senior Manager, Worldwide and U.S. Communications Tel: (415) 501-1698 News Media Only: E-mail: newsmediarequests@levi.com LEVI STRAUSS & CO. (CANADA) INC. 1725 16th Avenue Richmond Hill Ontario, Canada L4B 4C6 Caleigh Askew Communications Manager Tel: (905) 763-4340 LEVI STRAUSS EUROPE, MIDDLE EAST & AFRICA HEADQUARTERS Avenue Arnaud Fraiteur 15-23 1050 Brussels, Belgium MAIN EUROPEAN PRESS OFFICE Paola Brandi Press Officer Tel: (32).2.641.6580 Fax: (32).2.641.6636 E-mail: europe.press.office@levi.com I am getting the Willow and Tara fans onboard with this. They will also support a DA movie or TV series. We have lost Tara forever, we know that, but we will continue this fight because some things are more important than winning. Warlock
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Post by Star on Oct 31, 2002 19:25:47 GMT -5
And here's a link to Firefly's advertisers from Web Warlock. Write and let them know how the thousands od DA fans would appreciate their sponsorship of a DA movie or movies to continue the story. * * * * * Posted by Web Warlock: Awful damn nice of those FF fans. To provide us a link of all their advertisers. www.fireflysupport.com/sponsors.htmlYou know what to do. Warlock
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Post by Oldbdeyes on Oct 31, 2002 23:06:48 GMT -5
I contend that by posting the above, you violate the rules of your own board (see below).
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Post by Star on Oct 31, 2002 23:47:31 GMT -5
Please explain the innacuracies?
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Post by freezeframe on Oct 31, 2002 23:47:59 GMT -5
Quote: "On Buffy women are also degraded, raped, murdered or beat down on a regular basis. An inordinate number of minorities are killed (women, lesbians, African Americans, Gays) while white heterosexual males not only rarely die, the ones that do get to come back to life. (as a white heterosexual male I find this very offensive)."
I can't believe that you are willing to misrepresent yourself (read: lie) in your little letter, just because you're mad your show died (r.i.p.)
If you honestly think that Joss Whedon dramas are guilty of particularly negative portrayals of women (compared to the rest of what's out there), then you are clearly a loon (and that's as nice as I can put it).
Buffy is a pioneer in the portrayal of a strong, independent young, woman on TV, and has served as a role model for many. Max was a pouty little cutie with a tough attitude and much to recommend her, but she in no way resembles any real woman in her attitudes (well maybe some wannabes I know in real life who act tough). The closest archetype I can find for Max is Battle Angel Alita or other anime girls with borderline-child-like beauty, but act "tough".
At least you're willing to sign on your protest that you're bitter fans of Dark Angel. That way, the officials at Levis will KNOW that you're not to be taken seriously.
Actually, just the wording of your letter will let them know not to take you seriously... Yeeeesh.
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Post by Star on Oct 31, 2002 23:56:28 GMT -5
Our members do not go to the FF boards and interfere in what you are doing or saying. I don't see why you feel a need to come here.
If there are that many FF fans out there whatever the DA fans do won't make a difference so why are you so concerned about us?
And yes Buffy did once present a strong female role model but that went out the window last season with the degrading (and almost pornographic) sexual relationship depicted between Buffy and Spike.
Certainly not something I would want a child of mine ( male or female) seeing as an example. I found it even more offensive that Buffy slipped that into a show that most parents wouldn't even think of checking since it had been such a good role model previously.
Continual posts here that are only for the purpose of trouble making will be deleted and the posters will be banned from the board.
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Post by freezeframe on Oct 31, 2002 23:58:46 GMT -5
Please explain the innacuracies? What's inaccurate is that you're suggesting that gays are killed with inordinate frequency because the show actually portrays gay characters that were given more than brief lip service. It would be like me protesting Dark Angel as being racist and bigoted because the black characters are second bananas (why none of the superpowered people who actually get face time black? Or gay? Or whatever?), and gay people are basically barely noticeable in the story arc. Where are the gay people in Dark Angel? Were they selectively killed? Or does the superpower gene preclude same sex attraction? Your protests grossly mischaracterize Buffy, and you KNOW IT. The lengths that you are going to are irritating... but not overly so, because your protest sounds like it was written by an 11 year old (honestly. No insult intended), and I believe it has NO chance to be taken seriously by Levi Strauss or anyone else.
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Post by freezeframe on Nov 1, 2002 0:04:03 GMT -5
Our members do not go to the FF boards and interfere in what you are doing or saying. I don't see why you feel a need to come here. . Hey, I am offering an opinion. If you feel this is trolling, then feel free to delete me. There are plenty of DA fans over on FF boards making pathetic attempts to debate issues and they are being beaten down and made to look foolish because they don't know their issues of fact. They are generally not deleted. If you feel I am saying anything that is untrue, then you are free to debate me on it. If you as an administrator feel that it's just "bringing you down" to hear contrary opinions, then I guess it's up to you to decide to delete contrary opinions. I'm certainly not trashing DA on any serious level. My characterization of Max could at worst be described as mildly derogatory and mostly positive opinion of her portrayal.
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Post by V17 on Nov 1, 2002 0:07:19 GMT -5
>>>>>>>On Buffy women are also degraded, raped, murdered or beat down on a regular basis.
Have you actually watch an episode of buffy?
When has degredation or rape occured? And who is regularily beaten down? (Apart from spike?)
On the point of murder of women you are correct but then this is a show about vampires, who do kill. The vampires aren't gender biased though they kill anyone and everyone they want to.
In Buffy the main character (please note the title of the show) is female and is the hero. She's the one who kicks ass, who saves the world, who slays vampires and demons. She's the one who has the responsiblity of protecting 'man'.
Other strong characters are Dawn, Buffy's sister, Willow, an extremely powerful witch and Anya, an ex-demon. Maybe the characters aren't perfect but they are strong character roles. Portrayed as intelligent and witty.
We also had Tara (strong, beautiful, kind and intelligent)up until last year, Willow's girlfriend and yes she died but not because she was gay. Wouldn't you be more upset if they DIDN'T kill her because she was gay?
I really don't think trashing another show (especially trashing it with lies) is the way to bring back Dark Angel , especially if you want to be taken seriously.
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Post by freezeframe on Nov 1, 2002 0:08:26 GMT -5
The main problem is that your protest is so transparently obvious.
Nobody in their right mind would read it and think "Gee, These guys really thought Buffy was just the most awful show and TV, and they had to boycott it."
They're going to think (CORRECTLY): "Wow, these guys love DA so much, that they'll say anything to get even with Fox and Whedon and anybody associated with the cancellation of their show."
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Your feeble attempts to claim that this honestly originates from a social concern does not pass the "laugh test" (and yes, that's an actual legal jargon).
I'm done.
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Post by V17 on Nov 1, 2002 0:19:58 GMT -5
>>>>And yes Buffy did once present a strong female role model but that went out the window last season with the degrading (and almost pornographic) sexual relationship depicted between Buffy and Spike.
Can she not be a strong role model and enjoy vigorous, frequent sex that is not part of a relationship?
Can she not save the world, be witty, strong, intelligent and feminine and still have an active sex life? Does one make the other impossible??
She is still a good role model for all the above reasons and because of the sacrifices she is willing to make for family and friends and even perfect strangers.
But the point of these letters to levis isn't really to debate moral issues is it? You don't want Buffy and FF dropped but DA reinstated. Can't you find a better, more positive way of doing this and a way that will actually stand a chance of working?
Dropped BtVS & FF doesn't equal DA being brought back.
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Post by defenestratedone on Nov 1, 2002 0:30:56 GMT -5
I'm a newbie who was wondering if there was something I could do to help bring back DA without having another show I love cancelled? Seeing as how I've already written to all of the sponsers listed above to try and help save Firefly, doing the exact opposite would seem rather silly and non-productive.
Also, I was assuming (from what I'd heard) that the odds of DA coming back on FOX in a series format were slim to none. Or maybe none to when hell freezes over. Shouldn't the focus of this be more aimed towards having it picked up either:
1) By another network 2) As a mini-series 3) As a movie
I just wanted to make sure there were other parts of the save Dark Angel campaign open that I didn't find so distasteful? Again, I'd love to help save DA and I'm more than willing to write letters/postcards (I'm going to skim through the other "Save DA" threads to find addresses to write to after I post this) but the idea in this thread is spiteful and crude. DA isn't back in the lineup if Firefly gets canned so all this could do is hurt Firefly fans like myself. Having a show you like cancelled hurts - we all know this. I've had two shows I loved cancelled in recent months (DA and Nero Wolfe) so I'm a wee bit sensitive to someone trying to destroy one of the remaining few. I'd much rather participate to try and save a quality show than try to destroy another one.
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Post by houston on Nov 1, 2002 0:41:23 GMT -5
OK TIME OUT!!!! This thread is for campaign discussion. If you have a beef with anyone on this board, take it to the PMs. If you have any problem with anything I have said, then PM me personally. Messages not pertaining to this thread will be deleted. Nuff said.
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Post by MIKEWARNS on Nov 1, 2002 13:36:16 GMT -5
And I mean it!!! All posts that are inflammatory in nature will be DELETED!!! Keep the discussion civil and pertaining to this thread topic. If you have beef with someone in particular, take it to the PMs. If your sole purpose is to come here and bitch about the DA Campaign or people's opinions then take it somewhere else. Arguing about it is not going to change people's opinions. If I am not making myself clear then PM me. DA Fans- Do not increase the tensions by posting any rude remarks. Keep it civil!!! Houston Moderator P.S. Do Not make me lock this topic so that no one can post.
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stargurl
Devoted Fan
Geneva Locke-Young Max
Posts: 255
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Post by stargurl on Nov 1, 2002 13:58:07 GMT -5
To the FF fans that feel the need to come down to a Dark Angel board and express their opinions on why we should stop our campaign, leave!
What good does it do for Firefly if you come to our boards and yell? It's not our fault Firefly has recieved low ratings.
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