stargurl
Devoted Fan
Geneva Locke-Young Max
Posts: 255
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Post by stargurl on Nov 1, 2002 14:01:35 GMT -5
Or are only those people who agree with you allowed to post? Just wondering if you came from www.darkangeltv.com, because the mods there are, on a regular basis, very nasty. There are rarely full blown flames on these boards. The mods here are extremely friendly and have a much better attitude than those on DATV! So I'm just saying...treat them nicely.
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Post by ddfan22 on Nov 1, 2002 14:50:53 GMT -5
Actually, it is kind of my fault....
I REFUSE TO WATCH THE SHOW BECAUSE THEY CANCELED DARK ANGEL FOR IT.
It may be good, I dunno. The ratings say no.
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Post by Web Warlock on Nov 1, 2002 14:59:16 GMT -5
Ok first things first. Thank you Star24 for reposting my Levis information here. All I can say is I hope it helps. I have been speaking to a representative in marketing at Levi's. I won't give out her name because she does not need the pestering emails of a bunch of frightened Jossphiles. Needless to say once I spelled out everything going on Buffy and FF she was appalled. I provided examples and links to media articles confirming those examples. But most importantly I provided her with a link to the National Organization of Women latest report on women in TV. Buffy, normally a “must see” show for them was graded a C-. Their report more or less said everything I have been saying here for months. But don’t take my word for it, go and read it yourself at www.nowfoundation.org/watchout3/index.htmlOf note: Original Cindy was mentioned as a positive role model in the same sentence as Tara. They also commented on how both were gone. I am sorry there was a rash of Joss-sycophants here. The fact of the matter is they are scared. They have a petition out now to save FF (which begs the question if they are so convinced the show is good why the need for a petition?). The last time I looked at it they were at about 2,000. You, the DA fans, outnumber them 12 to 1. Then you add in the W/T fans. Given what our two groups have been able to accomplish in the past I say they should be scared. This has been a very bad week for Camp ME. First the Buffy cartoon is announced to be dead in the water. Second TV Guide reports that Amber Benson (Tara) will not be returning to Buffy at all. That screws their plans to string any fans waiting for her along (next weeks episode of Buffy implies that Tara is in it. Ratings stunt.) They try to put the blame on Amber by suggesting that it was money. Amber’s interview with Wanda at E!Online shows that it was really a matter of Amber not wanting to come back to disgrace Tara’s memory or to hurt the fans (something the fans have known for a while). See it here, www.eonline.com/Gossip/Wanda/Archive2002/021101b.html. Tonight FF should turn in it lowest rating ever. “Girls Club” has been canned by Fox and it was getting higher ratings. Dark Angel’s lowest rated show ever is still higher than anything FF has had. By continuing this fight you are telling the world of egomaniacal television producers that their days are over. Remember we are not giving them what they want, but what they need. Warlock
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Fay
Newbie
Posts: 2
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Post by Fay on Nov 1, 2002 15:08:04 GMT -5
Hi - I hope you don't mind me butting in here, but a friend pointed out your anti-Whedon campaign to me so I popped over to see what's going on. I have a great deal of sympathy for you folks - DA isn't my own main fandom, but I do enjoy it and I can totally imagine how gutting the show's cancellation has been for you all.
Guys, channeling your pain and anger at the cancellation of Dark Angel into trying to harm Joss Whedon is both mean-spirited and futile. I mean, I can understand it as a gut reaction, but it's misguided. Joss Whedon and his team are not the enemies of Dark Angel, they're just another bunch of writers, directors and producers who are producing quality genre television. The decision to cancel Dark Angel was made by the Executives, not Whedon. By attacking Whedon you are not hurting the people who are responsible for your pain.
Actively trying to get Buffy or Firefly cancelled will not help bring Dark Angel back on screen. It will not bring Max and Logan and co back. The most you can hope to accomplish is to hurt total strangers (both the fans and the cast/crew/producers) who are IN NO WAY responsible for the cancellation of Dark Angel.
If you do succede in undermining one popular genre show with a kick-ass female lead, this is not going to make the Network Execs decide that they want to invest in bringing back another cancelled popular genre show with a kick-ass female lead. They'll just put something mainstream into that timeslot, and we'll all lose out.
Now, I love Whedon's shows myself; they are, in my opinion, exceptionally intelligent, well written and thought provoking pieces of popular culture. I like 'em. But I wholly support your right to disagree with me, however, and if Dark Angel made you as happy as Buffy and Angel have made me, then that's great. I'm truly sorry for your loss. Finding a show that you love is terrific, and finding a community of like-minded fans who understand your enthusiasm is terrific too.
I don't think that, in drafting this letter to Levi's, you were consciously misrepresenting Whedon's shows. But I do think that your objectivity has been very much coloured by your emotions regarding Dark Angel.
The fact is that Whedon's shows DON'T have sexist, homophobic or racist agendas, and I think you probably know that - you don't sound dumb, just hurt and angry and misguided. In point of fact Whedon's shows are pretty good at depicting positive and rounded female characters - characters who are admirable and genuinely well-meaning, but who screw up and make some bad decisions the same as the rest of us. Buffy is a champion, but she makes some lousy choices and she gets burnt.
Sorry - I know it's rude to make such a very lengthy post, especially when it's my first time here, but I do think this is important. I totally support you channeling your energies into trying to get DA brought back - these are bad times for genre TV, with Farscape cancelled and Firefly liable to be cancelled too. But writing anti-Whedon letters is simply destructive and malicious - it's wasting time that could be spent on more constructive expressions of support for DA.
Please do think this through. If our roles were reversed there is NO WAY that I would try to get Dark Angel cancelled out of spite just because some **@* Network Execs saw fit to cancel the show I loved. No way. And I think you guys are better than that.
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Post by mjwillia on Nov 1, 2002 15:12:20 GMT -5
I have to agree with Warlock.
We need to make FOX think twice before they go and cancel a series that been on TV for two seasons without giving the viewers a conclusion!
We need to make FOX understand that they can't get away with S***ing on their viewers.
I think it was Warlock who wrote "...somethings are more important than just winning..." (Or something like that.) and Warlock is right.
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Fay
Newbie
Posts: 2
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Post by Fay on Nov 1, 2002 15:19:12 GMT -5
(Apologies for the serial posting.)
Jesus, Warlock, OF COURSE WE ARE SCARED!!! The buggers cancelled Dark Angel and they've cancelled Farscape - I for one am worried that they'll cancel Firefly too. This isn't a competition. I'm not trying to be macho.
You are trying to get shows that I enjoy cancelled. I don't want them to be cancelled. I want Farscape to come back, and Dark Angel to come back, and Firefly to be given a chance. I want lots of good quality genre television, and I don't want us all to have to battle it out as some either/or thing.
Sorry - I'm getting a little upset here. I simply don't understand why you hate my shows and want to hurt them. I wouldn't do that to you, and I don't understand it in the slightest. I don't see why liking one show means I have to dislike another show. That's silly.
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Post by Web Warlock on Nov 1, 2002 15:52:49 GMT -5
No offense, but if you knew half the things I knew about the situation with Joss and Amber you would not be so quick jump to his side.
There is a good reason why I know things on the inside. I maybe hated in some circles, but you can guess that for everyone person that hates me, one other supports me. Some of those supporters have...well let's just say they are inside.
I loved Farscape, and Witchblade and yes Buffy. But this is not about going out to get the "fans" of FF, this is about showing the people behind the Hollywood nepotism machine that we the viewing public are not going to stand for it anymore.
Let's spell it out. 1. Who had the most to gain with DA's abrupt cancellation? 2. Who was in power to cancel DA and put FF in it's place?
Why is it then that the person that is the answer for 2 is an executive producer for all of 1's shows?
Plus I am pointing out to Levis that their stance on social responsibility is 100% incompatible with the shows they support financially. I would not even had to tell them anything, I could have given them a copy of the NOW report and asked them to make up their own minds. Which in fact I did. Now Levis has to decide if these are the shows they want to support. In fact when I mentioned the circumstances surrounding the death of Tara the rep I spoke to said, “they didn’t do that, that is so clichéd!” I had to tell her that they did in fact do that.
Plus if Levis opts to support a future version of DA they know they will have a paying audience.
In the end everyone has to make up their own minds.
Warlock
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stargurl
Devoted Fan
Geneva Locke-Young Max
Posts: 255
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Post by stargurl on Nov 1, 2002 18:55:52 GMT -5
Thank you for all the information Web Warlock!
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Post by maingon on Nov 2, 2002 0:29:07 GMT -5
We need to do big things fast. Like e-mailing but everyone try to do it at a certain time. We cant have tons of e-mail address and a few people e-mailing different ones
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phoenix
Devoted Fan
My clones. They perform all sorts of important tasks.. cooking, cleaning.. and the other essentials
Posts: 478
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Post by phoenix on Nov 3, 2002 2:51:03 GMT -5
Ok my little bit to those who say we're after Joss. I watch buffy. And I've gotta say that the last season was very average. It was so less than what it used to be. Also Angel I watched a little bit last season. I find that buffy isn't the show it used to be. The ratings indicate this as well.
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stargurl
Devoted Fan
Geneva Locke-Young Max
Posts: 255
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Post by stargurl on Nov 3, 2002 16:45:09 GMT -5
I think we should direct most of our attention to the mail campaign hosted by www.showdown.net, I don't know, it seems like we really have a chance with that.
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Post by Tilter on Nov 3, 2002 19:30:34 GMT -5
i just want to get something cordinated real fast and for sure-like emailing and sending mail to fox and everything-hitting them all at once roughly.and also i totally agree with warlock and fay with alot of what they both had to say-especially now that sci-fi on the western front is becoming a dry-sespool of dust.
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Post by Lelu on Nov 4, 2002 1:47:48 GMT -5
My suggestion for this thread is if you want to see a continuation of DA then continue to write and send postcards to Fox and James Cameron. If you think you can make a cogent arguement to Levi Strauss and want to write them go ahead. Writing Levi Strauss is unlikely to gain us the return of DA.
As far a Joss Whedon and ME are concerned this is Buffy's last year anyway. I have always liked Buffy and Angel. I didn't care for last years Buffy but this year is better. I hope they go out on a high note.
We are not actively cmpaigning for the cancellation of FF. We have however chosen not to support it at all. If DA had not been cancelled I probably would have watched and supported FF. Unfortunatly the bad taste left in my mouth by the last minute cancellation of DA killed any desire on my part to watch FF.
I would be remiss if I were to lie and say I won't feel satisfaction when it goes but that's not because I want to hurt FF fans but because I wil feel justified at the bad decisions that GB has made over the last 2 years concerning DA.
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Post by Dawn on Nov 4, 2002 8:56:12 GMT -5
I would be remiss if I were to lie and say I won't feel satisfaction when it goes but that's not because I want to hurt FF fans but because I wil feel justified at the bad decisions that GB has made over the last 2 years concerning DA. I totally agree. I will be very happy when GB pays for all the crap she's dished out. DA and it's fans have taken pot-shots for the past year or more about our show, our loyalty, and all of our hard work to stand firm in our resolve to keep the show alive. It may sound mean for me to say, but.....welcome to the big league. Now the shoe is on the other foot for some folks, and they don't like it. I'm sure FF fans will do what they can to try and save their show, but they will accomplish nothing by coming over here and speaking their mind. It's a waste of time. Sorry, but most of us aren't interested. Besides, like someone said, your main concern should be to the people who make the difference (if that's how you really feel) and in many ways, that would be FOX. It is a shame that FOX is gonna make other fans suffer because of the decisions it makes. Maybe fans will finally wake up and realize how they are being played by FOX year after year.
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phoenix
Devoted Fan
My clones. They perform all sorts of important tasks.. cooking, cleaning.. and the other essentials
Posts: 478
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Post by phoenix on Nov 7, 2002 23:28:21 GMT -5
This is probably slightly off topic. This is what the latest recaplet of buffy from tv without pity said: Oh. My. God. The humiliation! The degradation! The stomach-churning, nail-biting embarrassment! And I'm just talking about how I feel for anyone involved in writing, directing, or otherwise producing this sad excuse for an episode of Buffy. We have a few minutes of brightness in the second half, but the relief of seeing an enjoyably silent Spike and a still-ambiguous Anya integrated back into the Scooby gang can't do much to relieve the pain of seeing the female characters act like a bunch of cat-fighting ninnies over a young man so bland as to be virtually invisible. It's like a nightmarish, mean-spirited version of "Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered" as written by someone who understands NOTHING about what made that episode enjoyable.
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