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Post by ML Fan on Nov 21, 2009 1:43:50 GMT -5
Have you seen "Child's Play?" Tell us what you thought. There are spoilers and discussions on our sister site NCIS Special Ops, if you're interested.
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Post by Michele on Nov 21, 2009 2:39:21 GMT -5
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Post by Michele on Nov 23, 2009 19:14:06 GMT -5
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Post by dzero on Nov 25, 2009 14:41:38 GMT -5
An enjoyable ep. Started out very good but the second half got silly with the girl running away and eluding Ziva like the kid was a ninja or something  Enjoyed all the stuff with the gang and Thanksgiving  |
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Post by shywriter on Nov 25, 2009 15:21:18 GMT -5
An enjoyable ep. Started out very good but the second half got silly with the girl running away and eluding Ziva like the kid was a ninja or something Enjoyed all the stuff with the gang and Thanksgiving Waiting to pass judgment after a 2d viewing; I seem to like them all better after the 2d time. I enjoyed the ep, but am starting to agree with some of those who are getting frustrated (or worse) at how they're writing Tony at the moment. He started off so well, and is now just swimming in circles. If they really are trying to show he's at a crossroads or conflicted or hiding his feelings or whatever, they're not doing too well with it, just giving him stuff to seem either irritating or inconsequential. And even if THAT was what they wanted to tease, leading to Gibbs having to shake some sense into him or something, even THAT would be better ('cos it's not how they're playing it, either.) ::sigh:: I just want the GOOD eps back, and a funny, smart but goofy, irritating but effective Tony back. I can't imagine that MW doesn't wany him back too!  |
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Post by dzero on Nov 25, 2009 15:39:01 GMT -5
And even if THAT was what they wanted to tease, leading to Gibbs having to shake some sense into him or something, even THAT would be better ('cos it's not how they're playing it, either.) Have no idea what this refers to.  Yeah it's true there hasn't been much character development with Tony lately but remember they have to take care of the whole cast, everybody gets their eps. There was a lot of Tony personal issues the first couple eps and RW will soon be on as his father, that and maybe one more towards the end of the season and that's the same amount of Tony as most other seasons IMO. The exception being S4 with the frog and the lady Doc. But lets talk about what did happen with Tony last night, Thanksgiving at an Indian Casino?  WTF Washington Dc is what, 2 or 3 hours from Atlantic City? why would go to a dinky little indian Casino   I've never been to AC and from what I've heard it's no Vegas but it's gotta be better than an Indian Casino. |
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Post by Mr.Clark on Nov 25, 2009 17:20:31 GMT -5
And even if THAT was what they wanted to tease, leading to Gibbs having to shake some sense into him or something, even THAT would be better ('cos it's not how they're playing it, either.) Have no idea what this refers to. Yeah it's true there hasn't been much character development with Tony lately but remember they have to take care of the whole cast, everybody gets their eps. There was a lot of Tony personal issues the first couple eps and RW will soon be on as his father, that and maybe one more towards the end of the season and that's the same amount of Tony as most other seasons IMO. The exception being S4 with the frog and the lady Doc. But lets talk about what did happen with Tony last night, Thanksgiving at an Indian Casino? WTF Washington Dc is what, 2 or 3 hours from Atlantic City? why would go to a dinky little indian Casino I've never been to AC and from what I've heard it's no Vegas but it's gotta be better than an Indian Casino. Theres a couple Indian Casinos up in Conneticut that are actually very nice, Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun are supposedly two of the biggest casinos in the world, far from being 'dinky' or 'little'. |
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Post by shywriter on Nov 25, 2009 19:36:24 GMT -5
And even if THAT was what they wanted to tease, leading to Gibbs having to shake some sense into him or something, even THAT would be better ('cos it's not how they're playing it, either.) Have no idea what this refers to. Eh, sorry -- there were a few interviews & articles quoting MW or SB (or both? can't remember) that came out early in the season saying that Tony was going to have a bad year, emotionally -- all the stuff that happened in the past few years all getting to him, I guess. They weren't more specific. If that's what they're going for, literally having him becoming rattled enough that his work is actually suffering too, they ought to have Gibbs noticing and/or reacting to his regressing -- at least an expression or two (or as a John Cleese character once described acting, "pulling a face" -- like when Ziva was worried about Tony running off to the doctor and Gibbs appeared to blow off her concern, but in the elevator looked concerned and puzzled.) This season, all we're seeing when Tony is being whiny or jerky or dim is just that -- no one seems to notice that he had grown up there for a while, and that this regression should be questioned. I have no problem with letting the others have their eps, but the writers feel the need to give everyone a little something to do -- that's fine too, but they need to do better than having Tony whine about eating bad chowder or being bedazzled by a collage on the plasma. It would be better not to give him anything than to be lazy or cheesy about it. |
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Post by ML Fan on Nov 25, 2009 20:21:02 GMT -5
I enjoyed this episode a lot because I thought that the team worked well together, although, I didn't like the part of the storyline where the kid goes missing. Speaking of the team, I would've liked to have seen Jimmy as well I enjoyed all of the Thanksgiving references with the team. I thought that the idea of Tony spending Thanksgiving at a casino just seemed like an add on, unless the intent was to show Tony feeling lonely. As far as Tony's character development goes, I have to keep in mind that there are other characters who need to be front and center from time to time and that's good because, just because an episode isn't Tony centric doesn't mean that I would neccessairly like it any less and I think a television show generally lasts longer when there is some balance where the focus is on different characters and not just one or two. I also keep in mind that we are only nine episodes into the scene and so I say that it's still too early to comment on character developement for this season right now. I think that there are series regulars right now who get far less character development than Tony does. |
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Post by Mr.Clark on Nov 25, 2009 20:36:53 GMT -5
This season, all we're seeing when Tony is being whiny or jerky or dim is just that -- no one seems to notice that he had grown up there for a while, and that this regression should be questioned. Eeehheeem, I've been complaining about it for a month now. Not that its a new occurrence, the writing with Tony is always one step forward one step back. |
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Post by dzero on Nov 25, 2009 21:16:49 GMT -5
Theres a couple Indian Casinos up in Conneticut that are actually very nice, Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun are supposedly two of the biggest casinos in the world, far from being 'dinky' or 'little'. yeah a couple here in the Southern California desert are a good size as well but most are dinky |
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Post by dzero on Nov 25, 2009 21:19:28 GMT -5
This season, all we're seeing when Tony is being whiny or jerky or dim is just that -- no one seems to notice that he had grown up there for a while, and that this regression should be questioned. Eeehheeem, I've been complaining about it for a month now. Not that its a new occurrence, the writing with Tony is always one step forward one step back. Might it be that they have that expression "one step forward two steps back" for a reason? that it's true to human nature and thus this represents the most complex writing in the history of NCIS? ;D |
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Post by shywriter on Nov 26, 2009 1:32:34 GMT -5
Eeehheeem, I've been complaining about it for a month now. Not that its a new occurrence, the writing with Tony is always one step forward one step back. Might it be that they have that expression "one step forward two steps back" for a reason? that it's true to human nature and thus this represents the most complex writing in the history of NCIS? ;D Well, if you guys aren't worried I hope you're right -- but again, it's not the lack of "character development" as dzero and then ML Fan mentioned that worries me, it's the writers' dropping in small scenes that are negative for the character without seeming to have any purpose than an attempt at comic relief, which isn't too comic and could have been done in a funnier, smarter and more positive way. I'd rather have NO development than throwing in strange and irritating behaviors for the senior field agent AND have his teammates thinking it's just the usual Tony. (Some investigators!) Yes, he's regressed before, but more directly related to plot arcs (like Gibbs' "margarita safari") and not quite like this -- or maybe this is just one regression too many for me. And Mr. Clark, I know you've mentioned it here & elsewhere: I wasn't implying it was new with me (in fact I think I said otherwise...?) I was trying to wait for S7 to develop a bit with several episodes and see what happened. It's just getting deeper into the season and as it's still happening it is making it more difficult for me to enjoy the show. That's how this particular whine started; saying that the show was harder for me to enjoy as this went on. Is it time to agree to disagree yet? |
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Post by Mr.Clark on Nov 26, 2009 6:56:48 GMT -5
I've said it a million times, the problem with procedurals like NCIS is that when they start doing well they have to try and keep things from changing for as long as possible. Shy I said one step forward one step back for a reason, its not about regression its about the illusion of growth without actually growing.
At the start of this season after the way Tony was firing on all cylinders after the first two episodes I was contemplating starting a thread at SpecialOps and seeing if I could get a healthy debate going on what they should do with Tony's character because he was at the time showing all the signs of being full prepared to move out from under Gibbs shadow and go out to find his own way. I really did think he was at the point where he was almost overshadowing Gibbs as being the Alpha male of the team. I wanted to see what other people thought about it and if they thought maybe it was time for a change for Tony, maybe he should get his own team or maybe Gibbs should be promoted and Tony takes the team. While I know this would be EXTREMELY unpopular with a lot of people at SpecialOps I thought it would be a legitimate question to ask. Because I think at some point Tony has to emerge as the alpha and either take over his own team or push Gibbs out, not doing so would ruin the team dynamic and diminish Gibbs who the writers have spent 7 seasons turning into this iconic archetype character.
This is exactly the kind of question SB and the writers and producers of NCIS, not to mention the people at CBS, absolutely DO NOT want people to be asking. NCIS is now CBS's cash cow, CSI is starting to falter and NCIS is the only show they've got pushing House for the title of #1 dramatic series. What CBS and therefore what SB wants, is to keep things exactly the way they are for as long as they possibly can and milk this cash cow for all shes worth. The last thing they want is a change that would take Gibbs or DiNozzo out of the spotlight and place them in a lesser role. Pushing either one out of the spot light would alienate a significant portion of the fanbase and maybe damage the show significantly.
This is why House is really bugging me this season, its now the number 1 show in the entire world. Fox wants to milk this as long as they can, because of this the writers have to bring this brilliantly self destructive character down to earth a bit so they can keep him from destroying himself till he stops making them money. Thus destroying what made the character brilliant and unique and turning him into something bland and palatable.
THis is why I will forever hold The Wire up as the greatest show in the history of television. Because David Simon's only concern is the integrity of the story, that's it. Come hell or high water the story is going to unfold as much as possible. If that means developing a character to the point where he moves out of the spotlight then so be it. If that means killing off one of the shows most popular characters, not because the actor wants to leave, or the character isn't playing well to the 18-49 demographic, but because keeping him around would stunt the growth of the story, you blow his a$$ away with a shotgun. Of course the Wire was a singular masterpiece that was written to be viewed as a novel, a piece of narrative genius that should be full of brilliantly scripted pay offs. NCIS by contrast is a police procedural where every crime has to be solved inside of 43 minutes and the silver haired fox has to look like the stoic hero, heaven forbid anything change this simple money making formula.
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Post by mari on Nov 26, 2009 17:45:04 GMT -5
What CBS and therefore what SB wants, is to keep things exactly the way they are for as long as they possibly can and milk this cash cow for all shes worth. The last thing they want is a change that would take Gibbs or DiNozzo out of the spotlight and place them in a lesser role. I get your point and this is exactly what made me stop watching House after seeing most of the episodes of S1. I liked the characters, I liked the way the team worked together, it’s a bit different than the standard hospital show… but after a while… just always the same all over again. Same things with CSI, I watched a row of episodes early on and liked it but now when it’s on it just doesn’t get me anymore. (Maybe the reason why I never got into any of their spin-offs) So assuming that’s their tactic and purpose in making Tony act more like his older self… a very fine line to annoying and driving away those people who at least expect some kind of consistency in the way the characters act. Because I think at some point Tony has to emerge as the alpha and either take over his own team or push Gibbs out, not doing so would ruin the team dynamic and diminish Gibbs who the writers have spent 7 seasons turning into this iconic archetype character. Hm… I don’t know. I guess you’re right with Tony (and all of them) probably moving on to having their own team at some point, but (and maybe I just didn’t watch often and closely enough) I don’t really see serious alpha male issues developing between Tony and Gibbs. Maybe I see them too much in a mentor-relationship, but I don’t think there necessarily would have too be a concurrency for primacy between them. (One could argue that the team works better with a more mature than with a childish Tony) |
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WTF Washington Dc is what, 2 or 3 hours from Atlantic City? why would go to a dinky little indian Casino 
I've never been to AC and from what I've heard it's no Vegas but it's gotta be better than an Indian Casino. 
