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Post by Star on Nov 15, 2002 19:12:51 GMT -5
Ok, I am going to step up and speak of some stuff that has been happening and in turn I am going to ask our readers to do the same. Several of the VS3 writers have been receiving through various methods, anonymous reviews expressing dissatisfaction with VS3 and the storylines and directions it has been taking. That stinks. Now hold on, its not for the reason that you may think. Hear me out please. It stinks not because the reviews are negative or critical. It stinks because they are anonymous and we 1. Can't respond and get a discussion going 2. Don't know if this is just a few people or these are the thoughts of many Guys we want to make this something that you look forward to and enjoy and that is as true to DA as we can make it. We aren't looking for just pats on the back!!! We want to know what we are doing right but (and more important imo) DAMN IT WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT WE ARE DOING WRONG! (Sorry for yelling but can you tell I'm really frustrated here?) Expressing honest opinions even negative ones isn't flaming and it isn't disrepectful. It helps us get better and improve. You show true respect for us when you trust us to be able to handle and listen to your honest and thoughtful opinions - good or bad. If every term paper you wrote got an A and if every project I turned into my boss got me a pat on the back, life would certainly be pleasant. Until it came to graduation and you got called in and told you weren't graduating because you had really been getting F's but no one wanted to hurt your feeling and tell you that, or I walked into work and found a pink slip on my desk because I was doing a crappy job but my boss didn't want to hurt my feelings and tell me. That would suck big time. You can't fix things if no one is willing to tell you they are broken!!! DUH. So I for one (and I KNOW that I speak for my fellow writers) would like you guys to step up and speak out and let us know what you are REALLY thinking. We won't melt, or run screaming and crying home to sulk in our rooms. We might kick a few trashbaskets ;)but then we'll sit down and work harder to make things better. Personally I love a challenge. So go ahead and challenge us to do better - you might be surprised at how well we can rise to it!! Thanks!!! Star
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AlsoKnownAsDalives
Devoted Fan
A tout le monde, A tous mes amis, Je vous aime, Je dois partir.
Posts: 147
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Post by AlsoKnownAsDalives on Nov 15, 2002 19:33:36 GMT -5
Personally, I love the story lines. Nothing wrong with it and I'm glad you guys got rid of the virus.
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Post by mjwillia on Nov 15, 2002 19:40:35 GMT -5
I can't believe it! It's my opinion that each and every episode has been true to the original DA theme! I've been even more impressed by how you writers have "cleaned up so many messes" Fox created in Season 2. My co-workers and I can't wait to get to work on Wednesday morings so that we can read the Tuesday night episodes!!! Believe me, life can suck out here in the middle of nowhere on the Great Plains. I swear sometimes we South Dakota fans (at least the ones I know) only keep going by looking forward to you writers! You are doing an awesome job! And "Thank you" from me and my friends!
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Post by Scirta on Nov 15, 2002 19:55:53 GMT -5
Ouch, my ear! I'm sorry to hear that some readers won't come forward with their critique. I'm certainly not the one to say that I liked everything about VS3. That isn't possible and it's not the goal of this project to please everybody. Most of my critique points were addressed in the ep discussion and that's why i only sometimes jumped in to reinforce them as needed. i also posted or pmd or e mailed some of my comments to the authors. To be short, my opinon is this. Shortly after the middle of the already aired eps, the storyline started to sag slightly, but I thought the upward curve had begun again with ep 7. That's why I'm not at all concerned about what is going to follow. But that's just me, since I like M&L to have problems to solve, not to have their troubles solved by others or taken out for them in a rush. I already commented on that in the Character discussion thread. I don't want too much sap, the occasional scene, like the end of ep 7 is all I need for like 3 more eps. That's why I'm very happy with the way the VS3 has been going lately. But that is not the issue here. I can't speak for anybody, I'm just hoping to prompt people to come forward and voice their dissent. As far as I gathered, the unhappiness some of the readers have expressed, either on or off the board has something to do with the perceived lack of M&L or "shippy" scenes. Or isn't it?
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X5-442
Devoted Fan
X5 IT
Posts: 258
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Post by X5-442 on Nov 15, 2002 19:56:00 GMT -5
Don't pay them any mind. You are all doing a totally wonderful job on the VS3!! It's the best VS3 I've seen, I mean I have to mail my kid sister the VS3 eps cause she doesn't have internet access, and she gets mad if I mail them late. Like you all have said before, here and on other boards, 'if they don't like what they read thay don't have to read it. ' Thier rants are meant for nothing more than to get a rise out of you and maybe hurrt your feelings. But think about this, if they dislike the VS3 so much, why do they come back? Seriously, don't let them get to you.
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Post by Be Boring on Nov 15, 2002 20:45:09 GMT -5
People who won't own up to what they're doing really get on my nerves. I'll admit I've pretty much lost interest in the VS3 since Familiar storyline was taken care of in such a disappointing and anticlimactic manner(for me anyway, I'm not trying to speak for anyone else here), but at least I came right out and said it. If someone won't respect you enough to tell you what they think and who they are, then you shouldn't give them the satisfaction of letting it get to you like this. As far as I'm concerned, people with no names don't exist, so until they give you their names I would suggest you just treat them like they're not there because that seems to be how they want it to be. Did that make any sense? I've been feeling a little weird all day, so if all this looks like jibberish then just skip over it.
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Post by Star on Nov 15, 2002 20:46:15 GMT -5
Thanks for the votes of confidence and we haven't been getting "rants" - not at all. I didn't mean to give that impression. We aren't letting them get to us other than that we'd like some more details and discussion.We don't have Nielsen boxes to look at although we do look at our site traffic ( and yes it is growing!). So we rely on boards like this one to give us an idea of our "grades"! Scirta, comments that '"it started to sag but then picked up again in Ep7" are great - but tell me- what made it sag and what exactly picked it up for you? You like "sap" in small ocasional doses - cool - is that what others like? M/L need to have some issues - is that a consensus out here or not? How about characters like Mole? A lot of readers say they like him - do others hate him and want him gone? Is it a good idea to bring back Deck as we did? Do you want to know more about the runes or are you quite happy for them to be gone forever? Does alec need a girl of his own or is he more the eternal playboy? Terminal City - love it, hate it, sick of it..... Inquiring minds want to know! Give us reasons why as well. Knowing you prefer complicated characters (or not) or more EO action or more JP helps us decide where to go with what we are planning out. We may not comment a lot about what you guys have to say (don't wanna give away all our plans and secrets after all ) but we sure do love to read them and read the details and discussions and pros and cons that you all see. So bring it on - we are ready and waiting. Don't worry - I've issued bulletproof vests to all the VS3 staff who visit here - we won't lose anyone if something less than perfect is said!!
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Post by ML Fan on Nov 15, 2002 21:52:19 GMT -5
quote author=Shawna link=board=Discuss&thread=1035837497&start=40#2 date=1036466144]I've been thinking about this episode so much since last Tuesday night. It was as well written as the other episodes and it had a lot of my favorite guy, Logan. I have loved every word of VS3 until this episode. And I will continue to love it, I know.
* I missed the tenderness between Max and Logan. To ignore it was cruel.
*There was not enough Max and I didn't like what there was.
*It started out with alec and didn't stop. Too much of a secondary character gave me deju vu for season 2, which I disliked.
*Fr Destry was not the Fr Destry I remembered from Pollo Loco. The bible quote is something he NEVER would have done.
Please understand this was only my personal opinion. In fact, it was more feelings than opinion.
Thank you. I feel better now.[/quote] I agreee with what Shawna has said about "Brother's In Arms", but I felt uncomfortable posting it as apparently some other DAR members do because, I along with other DAR members have a deep respect for the writers and members and the work that they do in writing DA S3.
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Post by Star on Nov 15, 2002 22:04:58 GMT -5
So out of curiousity and to take only one point- what didn't you like about Max?
In S2 I know I really disliked Max at times because she was whiny and depressed and not the smartass kick butt chick we all loved in S1.
What about VS3 BIA Max bothered you?
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Post by ML Fan on Nov 16, 2002 0:07:50 GMT -5
So out of curiousity and to take only one point- what didn't you like about Max? In S2 I know I really disliked Max at times because she was whiny and depressed and not the smartass kick butt chick we all loved in S1. What about VS3 BIA Max bothered you? I just felt that there was too little of her in "Brothers In Arms" and too much of the Logan and alec plot line. I agree with you about Max in S2, I also missed her kick butt chick attitude that I enjoyed in S1.
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Post by Scirta on Nov 16, 2002 1:57:20 GMT -5
Scirta, comments that '"it started to sag but then picked up again in Ep7" are great - but tell me- what made it sag and what exactly picked it up for you? Sorry, it was 3AM when I wrote that and I was thinking more of my bed than of anything else. I had a huge problem with the way White was taken care of and Sandeman got to be the Deus ex machina. Don't misunderstand me, I hated White, but treating the bad guy without respect was not the solution. It certainly didn't make me respect the winners of the fight or think they had accomplished anything. But that's an issue that was already commented upon. Often I also judge an episode by the amount of, how should I put it, emotional response it gets from me, how much I can feel with the characters. And after ep 4 (which I loved) that's been kind of missing until 7. I'm not saying I didn't llike 5&6, cause I did, but they couldn't hold my attention much after I finished reading them. It's hard to explain why. I thought they were slightly rushed, especially in the Sandeman and Familiar plotline. Again, I wanted them out, but with the dignity befitting a worthy oponent. I couldn't feel the rush of elation with Max and the gang when White was gone. I like contrast characters. I need a strong baddie to make the qualities of the main guys come to the front. Not having one (White was just a shadow of one) made the story sag for me until there where other threats to replace it. Didn't like how Manticore is totally out of the picture. I like to see the other X5 kids, but not really with a subplot of their own. I love the Mole/Max challenge. But i don't want more transgens running around. There are already enough. I love Deck, but I'd like him to be the big mean baddie again, with occasional insights into his caring attitude for the Xs. I'd be happy for the runes to be gone, but i'm afraid they'll be dismissed just like White. So give them a proper exit, please, no rushing. I'd like Logan to get back to EO and I'd love seeing him in action again, maybe getting some of his own problems other than the legs issue. What can I say, I like characters to suffer, sorry. Only then can they grow. Just my opinion. I liked the treatment of alec so far (maybe at the beginning it wasn't really what it should be (ep1, the Logan angry at alec part) but then it got a lot better). Loved the budding friendship there. With Bling gone and Sung away, I somehow see Logan in need of another man to be pals with. And I'm one of the few who actually like the way Asha was written. Much better than in the actual series. Yes, I'd like to see her with alec, but not really with him, if you know what I mean. I'm seeing the possibility lingering out there and them quarreling a lot, but no comfy-cosy things. If I don't grant those moments for M&L, why should alec and Asha have them? I wouldn't mind alec worrying about Asha for a while, like her getting captured or something and maybe in the last ep a slim hope for them to be together in the future. Poor Sketchy was often mistreated as the punching bag, but I got over it. Terminal City - good idea, but it's slowly getting stale. Anyway, please don't blow it up or kill all the transgens, that's not the point. Maybe the conflict over TC can be solved in some way so that the characters can get out of it. Just don't rush it, please. Yes, complicated characters with issues, more EO, please. As far as I can see, I'm going slightly against the grain of what people like out there. But all those things I mentioned are the reason why I'm happy with ep 8, with VS3 in general and looking forward to more, while the middle kinda threw me off a bit. I didn't get angsty about it, every season has ups and downs and I'm certain there were lots of people who loved the fact that White is gone. I am too, I just feel the need for somebody to replace him. Sorry I can't be more helpful here. Right now I'm happy and the little frustrations are in the past. Ep by ep, the story evolves and I move on with the characters. I like the amount of M&L there is right now, it's just the right one imo, but I know there are people out there who want more. So guys, speak up! ;D
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Post by Star on Nov 16, 2002 10:57:44 GMT -5
Thank you scirta! Wow. Your post has lots of good thoughtful commentary to digest and think about. I'm not going to rebut it because that isn't the purpose of this thread - it isn't a debate between the writers and the readers. If other readers want to chime in and agree or disagree or add to what scirta said please go for it. (We'll be sitting here quietly in the back corner with our PDA's taking the minutes so we can go back and have some interesting writers discussions about them as well!) This thread is meant to be exactly what scirta just gave us - honest reactions and thoughts about what you guys are seeing and feeling. The more of that we hear and the more different viewpoints we hear the more ideas we get. I know someo of what scirta said just sparked some ideas for me. I hope to see more posts on this thread - keep it up! ;D ;D Now my question for scirta - you knew you wouldn't get by witout one! You say you want Deck to be the big bad again. Is it realistic for him to be so? Did they turn him too much into a good guy at the end of S1? Or do you think Deck was just looking after his own ends in AJBAC and in VS3 so far and he could plausibly once again become the main nemesis of Max and crew? What about Manticore? Did taking out one Manticore facility really destroy the program or is Manticore like the hydra in Greek mythology? Cut off one head and another takes it place? Is that something readers would or wouldn't buy if we went there? (I'm playing devils advocate here - don't take any of this as being what we have planned for the future - or maybe it is - or maybe I don't even know?!! )
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Post by Tilter on Nov 16, 2002 16:37:50 GMT -5
yeah i really did like the first few eps alot-extremely well written by fans, but aftwards it started to go down hill a bit-maybe bc for me the change of writers kind puts u off a litte-different writers ever week have thier own style maybe so then the main problem i had was with maybe the dialodue-especially when max confronted mole and everything in the most recent eps. i like mole-but i think he should definitely be more threatening and display some of his more reptilian attributes and mannerism-or else its like a guy pretending to be a lizard transgen. and u guys should definitely bring back deck in full force- as well as more info on manticore and its operations as of now with the other organizations out their and their soldiers deployed out there
anyways u guys r doin a truly great job otherwise-really true to the vision of DA-verbal diaheria is always a great thing in my experience, i hope u guys continue for a long time :)seriously!
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Post by Rachel_Wilder on Nov 16, 2002 19:39:27 GMT -5
I agreee with what Shawna has said about "Brother's In Arms", but I felt uncomfortable posting it as apparently some other DAR members do because, I along with other DAR members have a deep respect for the writers and members and the work that they do in writing DA S3. Thanks for posting your thoughts here. I have no way of knowing if you were one of the people who posted things to me anonymously, but it's hard to deal with that kind of critique because there is no way to respond to it (because it's anonymous). I didn't respond to Shawna's post in the episode 8 thread because we happen to disagree and that's her right and mine. I want to see a balanced season 3 and that means that sometimes alec and Logan might be a bit more in the forefront. Max had her own storyline that was as important as theirs, it was just separate, for the most part. I think we're able to explore more of the Max and Logan characters by having them apart and reacting to other people at times. It's a balance and I think readers have to consider that each episode is just a smaller piece of a whole season. I wish I could tell you what was coming up...what we're building to, but you'll just have to wait and see!
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Post by Star on Nov 16, 2002 22:59:24 GMT -5
the main problem i had was with maybe the dialodue-especially when max confronted mole and everything in the most recent eps. i like mole-but i think he should definitely be more threatening and display some of his more reptilian attributes and mannerism-or else its like a guy pretending to be a lizard transgen. quote] What bothered you about the dialogue? In what ways did it seem off? Was it Max specifically who bothered you or others ? I think Max is a difficult character to write and to get her smartass attitude right and I know I struggle with it - is that what you are referring to or was it something different? hmmm...about Mole... how do you picture him displaying reptilian type characteristics? I'm just curious because we don't have the ability of the show to actually display them - is there something you think the writers might do to help you picture Mole's lizard qualities more?
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