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Post by mjwillia on Nov 18, 2002 17:54:01 GMT -5
X5-442,
That's a great idea! I don't know how to do that kind of stuff - but I will sure print it and mail it if someone is willing to create it!
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stargurl
Devoted Fan
Geneva Locke-Young Max
Posts: 255
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Post by stargurl on Nov 18, 2002 19:54:56 GMT -5
that's an awesome idea!! now we just need someone who knows how to do that thing...
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Post by mjwillia on Nov 19, 2002 16:23:50 GMT -5
A new article mentioning Dark Angel came out on Nov. 14th! It gave me another campaign idea. Is the Dark Angel DVD offered at movie rental stores? If so is there a way to find out how often it is rented nation wide? What if we could prove that DA's fan base was growing despite the fact that the show has been cancelled? What do you all think?
Here's the article:
TV on DVD is OK
By Amy Diaz HippoPress.com
Wanna program your very own network?
Why be at the whims of a primetime schedule when you can watch four hours of "The X-Files" after savoring three hours of "The Sopranos"? Tivo, you say? No, DVD.
Plenty of the cult hits of the 1990s have made their way to the land of box set but DVDs are still an unmined resource for television show creators and TV watchers alike. How can the tube dealers and junkies make the most of those fabulous little silver discs?
Old shows, new fans
Most television shows don't win fans after cancellation. But how many people actually caught the 1990 cult fave "Twin Peaks" and how many have seen it-post-bradcast-demise-on video and DVD? All the Dale-come-latelys can catch the entire first season without losing the story in time slot changes, pre-emptions and mid-season hiatuses.
And, though Laura Palmer devotees new to the fold don't have the benefit of contemporaneous fandom, the DVD format includes directors' commentaries, cast and crew interviews and interviews with TV experts-thus simulating the early 90s frenzy. My votes for now-cancelled shows that could find new fans in the aisle of Best Buy: Jay Mohr's wonderfully vicious "Action," "Dark Angel" (first season only, please) and, of course, "Seinfeld." (What? Even "Mad About You" has released a season one disc.)
Catch up
Fox's "24" moved quickly in to the DVD market by selling its first season before the second season hit the airwaves this fall. For a show that received so much critical acclaim, this kind of customer service may seem both over-eager and unnecessary. But "24"'s format-each episode was one, real-time hour of a day-could make it difficult for even the curious new viewer to check it out. By putting out season one, the show probably helped find new watchers for season two.
Make it up in volume
Many hour-long dramas, especially sci-fi and genre shows have a high production value. (Those alien foreheads and giant snake people don't come cheap.) Since these shows can sit on the edge of profitability for those crucial early seasons, what better way to bring in a little extra revenues than put the puppies out on DVD? For fans and newcomers alike, these season sets instantly increase in value with the addition of deleted scenes, alternate endings, commentaries and creator interviews. Cheap add-ons to expensive productions, writers, directors and creators can use these one-on-one chats to build that oh so important fan base. (After all, it's the slightly crazy ones who write letters, organize show conventions and do the word-of-mouth-marketing.)
Mini-marathon
For viewers, the best bonus on a DVD is the control. My first exposure to "The Sopranos" was from a weekend with the first season's DVD set. Viewed back to back (or over and over), a good series will show off its continuity, its character development and its story arcs in a way that weekly viewing doesn't always make clear. Conversely, of course, lousy shows will become even lousier viewed in painful, rapid succession. ("Sex in the City" can be a guilty pleasure in rare 30-minute installments. Watch more than an hour and you'll want to kill yourself with the heel of a Manolo Blahnik.)
Trivial pursuit
Control over the viewing schedule is the very best but those little extras are important cherries on top of the series sundaes. DVD's ability to offer geektacular levels of over-explanation is best used when fans get a peak at the minds behind the show. I'm a director's commentary junkie and none is better than Joss Whendon's nerdily proud discussions of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." He has a vision for his show that he not only demonstrates through scripts and direction better than any of his Mutant Enemy minions but also articulates like master showman he is.
Watch all you want, we'll make more
So many more shows scream for the box set treatment. HBO's "Six Feet Under," "The Wire" and "Curb Your Enthusiasm" should all be made available to the not-cable-ready masses. "The West Wing" needs to get a few seasons in on disc if for no other reason than to remind everyone how good it can be. Even little The WBers like "Smallville," "Gilmore Girls," the late great-ish "Grosse Pointe" and the first season of "Roswell" could find suitable homes in the release-by-season format. Can a deluxe edition of "Birds of Prey" be far behind?
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Post by philosborn on Nov 20, 2002 21:49:17 GMT -5
Apparently there's a Farscape con happening at the Burbank Hilton (a favorite spot for sf cons locally) this weekend. I probably won't be able to make it, as I'm rationing out my bike mileage to try to make sure it will still be running for Thanksgiving (got rear-ended on the fwy by a Dodge 1500 RAM - aptly named ; now I drive what I call the "compacted" edition of the Honda 650 Nighthawk.) Unless of course someone is heading that way? via Orange County. philosborn2001@yahoo.com. Here's the blurb from an ad site: THE OFFICIAL FARSCAPE CONVENTION (Nov 22 - 24, 02; Noon - 6 pm) Burbank Airport Hilton, 2500 Hollywood Way, Burbank, CA 91505-1019, (818) 843-6000 Fax: (818)842-9720 Room Rates: $104/night Guests: Claudia Black, Gigi Edgley, Wayne Pygram, Anthony Simcoe, others. Memberships: General Admission: $25 in advance, $30 at door; Gold Seating: $349; Special autograph tickets available Contact: Creation Tickets, 1010 N. Central Ave. 4th Floor, Glendale, CA 91202, (818) 409-0960, Fax: (818) 409-0827 This may be just a commercial con, like the Creation Con Trekie thing. Fun, but don't expect too much reality. Those $349 Gold Seating tickets are a little scary.... A fan con - one owned and put on directly by fans - will typically have all kinds of little idiosyncratic goodies. It will also generally have a con wake or dead dog party or whatever, which is where everybody still on their feet gets together to moan and bitch or praise and exuberate (is that a word?) over the con. This is potentially a good time to catch all the knowledgeable movers and shakers and either pick their brains or set a time to get together. Anyway, as it seems that the local Babylon V con - Agamemcon - may be gone, then Farscape is the next best thing, I suspect. They are in the same boat as we are - and, in fact, I'm kind of a Farscape fan myself. It was a fun, quality show. Not in a class with DA, but still decent. There are all these scattered efforts out there by orphaned viewers trying to rescue their shows. Most of them will fail. The suits don't know any good reason to listen. Here is an opportunity for the next Yahoo. Recall that 8 years ago, Yahoo didn't exist. Whoever comes up with a good model that works financially/businesswise to let us, the viewers, invest in and control what gets produced and shown will be the next Yahoo. nordrum.home.netcom.com/ocsfnow.htmzicree.com/zbio.htmlThis guy - Marc Zicree - gave a dynamite presentation at the Orange County Science Fiction Society's meeting last month. Check out his site. He's on our side and he has influence. He was recently approched by the Scifi channel as a possible candidate for running their operation. We should try to involve him.
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Post by mjwillia on Nov 21, 2002 9:01:06 GMT -5
Philosborn,
Hey, I read both of the links and these folks are not only "For - Real" but they do seem like the type that would be on our side.
I have 2 questions:
1. Would they be open to we DA fans asking them to help us with either a conclusion or a season 3 of DA?
2. If so, how would we approach them?
Thanks for the info!
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Post by philosborn on Nov 21, 2002 21:50:33 GMT -5
Hy mjwilla,
The Orange County Science Fiction Society is just a bunch of fans who like to get together once a month and, often as not, manage to bring in a really interesting person to enlighten and entertain. While I'm sure they are sympathetic in general, and probably have a lot of good contacts, my impression is that they are not going to get involved to any huge degree. They would be happy to help us find people who CAN help, and I'm sure they would be open to hosting a meeting for someone connected with DA directly to speak, as they are always looking for speakers.
Zicree, on the other hand, is a mover and shaker. He got Joe Strazinsky - the guy who created Babylon V out of his own head and made it happen - his first screen writing gig. He personally wants to change things in exactly the direction that we want, and people listen to him. If we have a plan that looks worthwhile, then he will at least listen, and likely figure out ways to improve on it.
Maybe we should think about promoting something like putting together the writers, directors and producers who know how to do things right - Cameron, Strazinsky, Zicree, Spielburg, Lucas. (You can probably name others.) Together, these guys have a LOT of clout - and money - and, most important, FANS! But the network suits without a clue (except as to how to snow the money bags) keep over-riding these guys' judgement.
Later...
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Post by philosborn on Nov 21, 2002 22:13:17 GMT -5
OOps.. (forgot ) Thanks a lot for that article, mj. That makes me more confident that we are on the right track. Eventually it won't matter maybe what the suits want. We'll just buy the CD direct. Why even try to get on broadcast? If you've got a million people - which is a small audience on broadcast - then you can easilly finance a show like DA. One little thing along these lines that Zicree showed us, just for fun, was this dynamite trailer for "Attack of the Clones." It was perfect! Nobody could have guessed that in fact it was created before any of the preview ads for the movie had come out by a guy at home with his computer, using rumors and leaked info. Zicree also used this as an opportunity to point out that many production companies would have sued the BeJesus out of this guy for all kinds of copyright infringement. Lucas, however, is totally pleased with all the parodies, fake episodes, and whatever else his fan community can come up with - so long as they don't try to sell it in his market. Generally speaking, the real creative guys understand this concept. Let's say the SF fans of the world signed onto a pledge of some small amount of money - say $20 max - which would give them a piece of the action as well as payment toward very reasonably priced DVDs of NEW Episodes of their favorite shows. The deal would be like the one for Blender (blender.org) - no money required until enuf people committed to make it doable. So, you set a minimum of say $5 million, at which point the obs come due and people's cards get billed. However, this requires more than just a few post on this site. Someone who understands the business end is essential. Also, we would have to figure out the details of who decides what shows to produce. If it was just us DA fans, then problems would be fewer, but so would the money. Combine our fan resources with FarScape, maybe Above and Beyond, maybe Sliders? ... what else? Then maybe we have a lot more money to finance the actual production. We could also consider the possibility of real investment - like any stock company. If our fan-owned studio made real money, then the stock we bought with our $20 (or whatever) might actually start making us a little money. The issues there include things like control - suppose some deep pockets suit sees the money and tries to buy a controlling interest. Back to square one?
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Post by mjwillia on Nov 22, 2002 8:54:42 GMT -5
So if we were to try to get something going with these folks then, it sounds like we need a "critical mass" of DA fans will and able to go to these cons and petition the "power" people right? In other words, how would we proceed? Did you see the message about "irc" under the "Newstand" thread? Maybe those fans would be interested in this topic too? What do you think?
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artemys
Fan
Amor vincit omnia.
Posts: 99
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Post by artemys on Nov 22, 2002 22:12:53 GMT -5
1) we've got to aggresively continue to pursue solidarity w/other fans of threatened/canned SF shows to pool resources AND get good new campaign ideas--outreach with Farscape, BoP, Witchblade, etc. fans--either through their websites, or at cons, local comic book shops, etc. 2) how about the fundraising proceeds to go towards more media ads AND the sale/manufacture of DAN printed vinyl banners (these can be posted @ large events esp. parades), plus logo'd flags, pens, pencils, bumper stickers at the DAN Store--any mass-produced stuff that's easy to hand out at large events to crowds, emblazoned w/either the Freak Flag or other postcard-derived suitable slogans). also, how about fan-created, downloadable/printable flyers in the manner of our fan postcards. 3) several varieties of pre-written letters and envelopes for people to simply sign and add demographic info. 4) contacting local media outlets and passing along press releases in addition to doing anything group & public. 5) most importantly, their fans are organizing local cells in the areas where they're doing their rallies. We really need to network ourselves locally & organize w/other fans in order to pull that type of stuff off. WHERE: our neighborhoods, churches, schools, work, malls, coffee shops, at special events like sf-cons, movie premieres, sports games or general public events, like holiday themed stuff like the Halloween @ the Castro, San Francisco, Thanksgiving, Xmas, New Years' parades. . . Jumping on the Save Farscape model, the opportunities for public media attention (THE RALLIES) will be ample because of the Holidays. If you check out this "Save Farscape" link, their fans, "the Scapers," are organizing grassroots rallies in cities around the world, at locations like comic book shops. sureley we Freaks can all focus OUR energies and do similar stuff for DA!!!! I'm really picking up on how they're doing far more than just emails and letters (of course we should continue on that front too). www.savefarscapecentral.com/cgi-bin/rally.cgi?action=display&page=3#honoluluIn this vein, I see DA fans like ourselves showing up at , say movie premieres like "Solaris", esp. cos it's Camerons' project, wearing DAN t-shirts and imploring the general public to join our fight and bring back our show. we can do that too with big-turnout movies like "Harry Potter", "Die Another Day," and the upcoming "The Two Towers." OF course, we should show up wearing t-shirts w/Bring Back/More DA stuff to hand out wherever "Honey" will be playing. I realize that we're all busy and got to live our lives, but I'd be most willing to do public outreach regularly on a small scale, like posting flyers and leaving bumper stickers @ my college, or at local coffee shops. I would be proud to participate w/other local DA fans in pulling a rally. p.s. another possibility for DAN t-shirts would be an inexpensive iron-on transfer (again, grabbed from "Save Farscape")
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artemys
Fan
Amor vincit omnia.
Posts: 99
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Post by artemys on Nov 22, 2002 23:37:29 GMT -5
hey everyone, The Scapers have also pulled together to produce the "first ever fan-produced, fan-funded television commercial", I Am Farscape: www.watchfarscape.com/news/article.php?newsid=157damn, they're hardcore. We need to be too. again, surely this is something we Freaky and non-Freak DA fans can band together to do for DA! I 've been digging the fun Vs3 as much as anyone else here, but I feel it's been sidetracking everyone's energy and attention better spent towards the DAN campaign. More Max and DA should, and must, be our primary mantra and Mission. I really like the idea of DA doing a 'reverse Buffy': jumping from TV to the Big Screen altogether. And, thanks to UncleGordo (I think) for that Canadian article, we know that's also Jim Cameron's personal preference. THAT's how we should press for More DA. Cameron stated before that he wanted to continue working with Fox for any new DA tv project, (which precluded any of our efforts to get other networks interested in picking up DA). That would suck cos of how Fox treated DA sooo badly. I don't ever want them to get their paws on DA again. If it's done as a Movie, then I suppose Cameron can assume production and creative control entirely under his own Lightstorm Entertainment. To do this most effectively, of course we'd have to do serious outreach with other major DA fansites like DAtv and darkangelFan.com. We need to get our collective nuts focused and that tight to be as relentless and serious as the Scapers. I have no doubt that their efforts will pay off. They're sooo organized. WE can do this too!!! there's a section on their message board called "Known Space: Find Scapers in your Area," currently divided into three categories: Americas/Australia-New Zealand/Europe. Indispensable for their Rallies. It's a fact that we DA fans are in all those areas, plus Asia. It's all about Networking. . . . *hint hint*, Star & Mod Squad!! They even have buttons on their site that link to tight, stylized fan-made posters that say "Wanted: Farscape Season 5", one starring each character. Those posters seem to be most effective cos they look like block prints in the manner of Andy Warhol's eye-catching, iconic Marilyn Monroe. They're asking fans to print them out and either post them as flyers or include them in snailmail. WE can totally do that for DA too--after all, there are many talented fan artists among us I'd *gladly* post those all over town and mail them to all the appropriate folks. I think they'd be even more effective than the postcards simply cos they're larger (looks like they're 8 1/2 by 11, but I haven't tried printing one out).
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Post by mjwillia on Nov 23, 2002 16:35:12 GMT -5
dark_alita is right. The Save Farscape Campaign site is very well organized and full of very impressive ideas! It does seem like our only hope of seeing DA on the screen again is if Cameron makes a movie.
It seems to be time to give up on FOX and focus all of our energies on Cameron.
1. May we could send Cameron a poster each week that features a particular DA character and a request for him to make a movie. If we focus our attention and money on Cameron then maybe he would make a movie.
2. Does any of us DA fans have the ability to make a home-made commercial for Cameron and make it look like an "eyes only" cable hack that would play on "Real-Player"? Then we could all copy it and email it to Cameron. That would be cheaper than paying for a TV commercial and Cameron is the only audience we are targeting any way.
We don't have much money and we have spent 6 months targeting FOX and it's advertisers. Let's focus what money and talent we do have on the one guy that can make our dreams come true!
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Post by philosborn on Nov 23, 2002 18:52:39 GMT -5
Great posts, guys!
OK, you may have guessed that I am really strapped for time, which is why I don't get back to people for a few days sometimes. I'll try to make up.
It does not necessarilly take a huge number of people in a political movement to change the world.
One guy figured out how to make a browser at CERN, and the Web was born. A tiny team of crack engineers who left Atari after the bankers and suits stole it from Bushnell made the Amiga, which put multimedia into the hands of individuals (until the suits destroyed Commodore), which led to the Video Toaster from NewTek, which made Babylon V possible, and which ultimately revolutionized the whole special effects industry.
Yahoo was a couple of guys in a college dorm. Visicalc, which ruled the financial software world for about a decade and led to Lotus and all the big spreadsheet programs in use today, was invented by another couple of college guys who wanted to predict football games.
Raising awareness is great, but the bottom line is the bottom line. What we need is to convince Cameron or someone who can fund him that this is a money-making proposition. Fox decided otherwise, probably not based on the unbiased $ returns from DA, but on their corporate "vision" that they could do the same thing - as in "Firefly" - and keep ALL the profits and the control, which is important to them.
It's important to us, too, from the opposite perspective. WE and all those other orphaned fans of FarScape, etc., are the end recipients of whatever Fox decides to put out there. WE should logically have a major input into that decision.
This is not an isolated problem. Atari had the hottest, most fanatical bunch of users ever in the early '80's. As documented in Steven Levy's classic "Hackers," when the bankers snookered Bushnell into a takeover, they put a VP suit from Warner's movie division in charge - a guy who had not a clue but who could be trusted not to do anything radical (like "radical" was not the essence of Atari), and who immediately set to work to disengage the company from its users, driving out the best engineers as a result, who then went on to create the Amiga with their own money.
But Commodore, which bought the Amiga from the renegade creators out of Atari, was infected with the same disease. Owning the hottest hardware in existence, a machine that outperformed everything on the market with beauty and grace, the investment gurus who controlled Commodore used it as a vehicle for insider trading, bouncing the stock up and down and making money in both directions, until they destroyed the company.
In the last years of Commodore, there was a large movement by the user community to buy the company. It could have worked. The Commodore engineers were the best. The Video Toaster couldn't run on anything but an Amiga and it was taking over the entire CGI industry. The fully pre-emptive multi-tasking OS made Windows look like junk, and, good as the Mac was, the Amiga had in-house integrated chip design, which Apple has never had. Apple engineers admitted years later that the Amiga terrified them. But the users were just a little too late, and those users who put money into buying Commodore stock saw it go to zero.
So, we ended up with MicroSloth, an OS running on hardware that theoretically should make it over 100 times as fast as the fastest Amiga, but, in fact, is often much slower. (You could format multiple floppies, AND print, AND download, and keep working on something else, on an Amiga, without major slowdowns. My Pentium graphics workstation where I do marketing literature and webdesign for a living, cannot even begin to match that.)
Before the suits figure out how to take the Web back, we had better get our act together, or face a future of nothing but SPAM in every area of our soon-to-be boring lives as corporate citizens.
I'll take a look at those FarScape activist sites. Thanks, people. Keep it up.
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Post by philosborn on Nov 23, 2002 18:58:08 GMT -5
Oh, almost forgot! Who has a good pic of a Manticore barcode? I want to run off a bunch on transparencies to take to Loscon.
Also, where can I find a good clean pic of Joshua's flag? I WANT that on my jacket!
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Post by philosborn on Nov 23, 2002 19:08:22 GMT -5
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Post by philosborn on Nov 23, 2002 19:19:40 GMT -5
Point of interest: There are currently 15 pages of DA ads on EBay - a lot more than for my popular Nighthawk motorcycle (for which I'm in the market for a replacement, BTW). There are 27 pages for FarScape - but FarScape has official U.S. DVDs available.
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