|
|
Post by ML Fan on May 21, 2010 21:34:19 GMT -5
Have you seen "Rule Fifty-One?" This is the last episode of the season. Tell us what you thought. There are discussions and spoilers also posted on our sister site NCIS Special Ops, if you're interested.
|
|
|
|
Post by Michele on May 22, 2010 20:06:18 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Mr.Clark on May 23, 2010 6:33:23 GMT -5
I have to say I really enjoyed the last 4 paragraphs of that article. Very nice to finale see MW give an interview without turning up the silliness to dancing monkey levels. Nice to finally know he's actually cognizant of the depth of his own character. It is somewhat disapointing to note that he's also cognizant of why fans are sometimes frustrated with that character, that being his inability to break free of his own stereotype. |
|
|
|
Post by shywriter on May 23, 2010 9:54:20 GMT -5
I have to say I really enjoyed the last 4 paragraphs of that article. Very nice to finale see MW give an interview without turning up the silliness to dancing monkey levels. Nice to finally know he's actually cognizant of the depth of his own character. It is somewhat disapointing to note that he's also cognizant of why fans are sometimes frustrated with that character, that being his inability to break free of his own stereotype. I've said this elsewhere, but I suspect he's been around enough, and involved in short-lived TV shows enough, to know that a steady gig isn't to be sneezed at -- with a teenager and a new wife who wants a family, it serves him to keep the status quo -- or at least to just follow what TPTB want. After all, for all our griping, NCIS came from obscurity with little to no support from CBS to be #1 in S7, which apparently is unheard of. Why fight success? That, and MS's tendency since starting in NCIS to give very positive interviews, no matter what (more & more impressive, his graciousness and charm!) -- what do we want him to say? We fans can despair over bad writing and frustrating show development, but MW isn't one of the writers, just one of the guys tasked to carry out what they give him. In his current status it's probably less important for him to just put a positive spin on everything even when he doesn't mean it, because he's definitely a factor for getting & keeping viewers, but he still is true to the "team." Gotta give him some credit for that. All of the actors seem very honest about enjoying going to work every day -- not only in that business but in any, how many of us can say the same?  Whatever misgivings any of them might have had in the first few years about their characters or where things were going (or the choices made when DB left to have SB take over) have to have been quieted somewhat by their success. As much as I'm addicted, even I can see that NCIS has never been the quality of other shows we (well, mostly others  ) have discussed here, such as West Wing (and probably all the other great series mentioned), but it's a good way to escape for an hour every week. Like most network shows, there will be gaffes and "adjustments" of real life rules to fit into their 42 minute allotment. It's frustrating, in that it wouldn't take all that much thinking by the writers to make it better, but there may be any number of constraints or agreements or other behind the scenes issues that affect the show in ways we will never know. So I guess while MW is DiNozzo for us and has a lot of effect on the character, it just doesn't seem fair to hold him accountable for doing his job -- he shows up and interprets the words and actions they give him to do. Maybe MW and TDiN are alike in that way -- ready for their own "team" but fully content to stay in an established, well-oiled team working for MH/Gibbs. Not everyone agrees that the way to handle success is to immediately look to climb up another rung. (and he may be one of those who still remember the "Peter Principle!"  ) |
|
|
|
Post by ML Fan on May 23, 2010 21:34:57 GMT -5
I think that if TPTB at CBS really wanted the "NCIS" cast all over the media giving interviews and making appearances etc. that they would've been but, I also think that "NCIS" would've become an Internet spoiler driven, overexposed show and if that happened who knows if the show would be going into its eighth season now? I also think that despite the perceived lack of publicity that "NCIS" is in competitive time-slot and continued to do well through the years. I think that if "NCIS" had not done well and continued to do well in the ratings which is really all TPTB care about that CBS would've changed its time-slot, but, that has not happened and now we have a spin-off, "NCIS Los Angeles" which is a testament to "NCIS's" success and so I think TPTB are happy with "NCIS." I also think that "NCIS" is one of the few shows where the writing of the characters and the storylines got better for the most part after Season 2, with many shows it is just the opposite.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mr.Clark on May 24, 2010 2:17:08 GMT -5
I have to say I really enjoyed the last 4 paragraphs of that article. Very nice to finale see MW give an interview without turning up the silliness to dancing monkey levels. Nice to finally know he's actually cognizant of the depth of his own character. It is somewhat disapointing to note that he's also cognizant of why fans are sometimes frustrated with that character, that being his inability to break free of his own stereotype. I've said this elsewhere, but I suspect he's been around enough, and involved in short-lived TV shows enough, to know that a steady gig isn't to be sneezed at -- with a teenager and a new wife who wants a family, it serves him to keep the status quo -- or at least to just follow what TPTB want. After all, for all our griping, NCIS came from obscurity with little to no support from CBS to be #1 in S7, which apparently is unheard of. Why fight success? That, and MS's tendency since starting in NCIS to give very positive interviews, no matter what (more & more impressive, his graciousness and charm!) -- what do we want him to say? We fans can despair over bad writing and frustrating show development, but MW isn't one of the writers, just one of the guys tasked to carry out what they give him. In his current status it's probably less important for him to just put a positive spin on everything even when he doesn't mean it, because he's definitely a factor for getting & keeping viewers, but he still is true to the "team." Gotta give him some credit for that. All of the actors seem very honest about enjoying going to work every day -- not only in that business but in any, how many of us can say the same? Whatever misgivings any of them might have had in the first few years about their characters or where things were going (or the choices made when DB left to have SB take over) have to have been quieted somewhat by their success. As much as I'm addicted, even I can see that NCIS has never been the quality of other shows we (well, mostly others ) have discussed here, such as West Wing (and probably all the other great series mentioned), but it's a good way to escape for an hour every week. Like most network shows, there will be gaffes and "adjustments" of real life rules to fit into their 42 minute allotment. It's frustrating, in that it wouldn't take all that much thinking by the writers to make it better, but there may be any number of constraints or agreements or other behind the scenes issues that affect the show in ways we will never know. So I guess while MW is DiNozzo for us and has a lot of effect on the character, it just doesn't seem fair to hold him accountable for doing his job -- he shows up and interprets the words and actions they give him to do. Maybe MW and TDiN are alike in that way -- ready for their own "team" but fully content to stay in an established, well-oiled team working for MH/Gibbs. Not everyone agrees that the way to handle success is to immediately look to climb up another rung. (and he may be one of those who still remember the "Peter Principle!" ) I think you kinda misconstrued the point I was trying to make. I've never expected Weatherly to throw the writers under the proverbial bus. I know he's a pretty loyal guy and will tow the company line. What struck me about this interview is different is the way he talked about his character. In the past his attitude towards his alter ego, in interviews was almost slanderous. Usually when MW is in an interview he turns the self deprecating/silly humor up to 11 and rips on his character writing him off as a vain little Van Wilder type frat boy that never grew up. Its the first time I've ever seen MW actually acknowledge that their was more than meets the eye to Tony and he has a deeper and more resilient character than even he's given him credit for int he past. As far as his last line about Scooby-Doo characters I didn't intend my stance on that line as a rip on the writers, more of a rip on the genre of procedural shows. In the words of the great David Simon, if you really want to write something great 'nothing comes before the story' i.e. you don't handicap the story or character development to placate the audience. If the story requires a character develop or even be killed of then you develop him or you kill him off you don't worry about how your fan base will react. Network police procedurals however aren't about story their about ratings and money so they won't let a character develop if it means it might alienate a few fans. |
|
|
|
Post by dzero on May 27, 2010 9:35:39 GMT -5
Season finale and no comments? I thought it was entertaining enough but I have to be honest and say I am just damn confused by the overlapping plots now . Mostly the lawyer lady, I mean what the hell is she doing there? She is a civilian and nobody trusts her but she is working for NCIS as a consultant? She admires Bell and wants sexy time with Gibbs? WTF is going on? Gibbs has always been my least favorite member of the team and episode after episode delving into his past and personality make me... well not want to puke but I am ready for them to get back to the more interesting/entertaining members of the team. meaning anyone elseI imagine Shywriter doing the happy dance at all the Casablanca references?  |
|
|
|
Post by AngelZ on May 27, 2010 21:17:34 GMT -5
Well I enjoyed it  but I'm not going to give it a 10. Perhaps a 9? I don't like the eeeeevil lawyer lady (or understand her) but I liked her twist at the end. It opens the possibilities for next season. I too have never been the biggest fan of the Gibbs-melodrama-circus and have always preferred him dark and mysterious. But I guess after 7 years it would be ridiculous not to know at least a few things about him? It is however difficult to see Gibbs-as-God when he is no longer mysterious and I find that I want to see him cut down a peg or two or six. |
|
|
|
Post by shywriter on May 29, 2010 8:59:39 GMT -5
Season finale and no comments? I thought it was entertaining enough but I have to be honest and say I am just damn confused by the overlapping plots now . Mostly the lawyer lady, I mean what the hell is she doing there? She is a civilian and nobody trusts her but she is working for NCIS as a consultant? She admires Bell and wants sexy time with Gibbs? WTF is going on? I imagine Shywriter doing the happy dance at all the Casablanca references? Oh, yes, very much! Added to the fact that I've always liked Vance (never got why so many just dislike him, and how much they do -- he's far more interesting than the other directors and appears to be far, far more capable of running a large agency than Jenny!) it was very cool. I've liked it a lot before when he & Gibbs work in tandem, and the "reminder" planted earlier -- Tony's scene reminding us that Vance was willing to play games to allow his agents to get things done -- worked for me leading into it. I keep seeing Vance's take on Gibbs being repeated frustration with some of his methods, but at base, trusting that Gibbs is pretty easy to figure out in that he'll do the "right thing," as defined by the cowboy-Marine mindset, so the likelihood that he'd turn or be some sort of mole is miniscule. But yes, lots to like in this ep, primarily competent!Tony, but lots going on and some so "subtle" it's gonna take some rewatching and chewing on things to figure out what's up. And some not so subtle: for the whole "Rule 51" thing, I can't believe how I stupidly missed the obvious until I read someone's post on Special Ops. I was thinking that "sometimes you're wrong" meant that he was owning up to the fact he wasn't the "good cop" he always held himself out to be -- after all the set up with MAllison Hart (& Paloma, too, I think) accusing him of being Mr. Law & Order when he started off his career by indulging in a vendetta killing. But  -- all the pointed circling of the rule "never involve lawyers" and his writing rule 51 on the back of that other rule ... which of course is why they set up the scene with the rules on separate slips of paper, to be obvious, right? I watch it for the MW scenery; I'm too dim to catch the obvious! I'm with you on that too, but in a way it made for a very stress-free season ender -- you know they're not going to kill off Gibbs, and any drama with him isn't so worrisome for the others. Actually, though, in last week's ep, more than this one, I think I saw more acting from MH than I remember through the rest of the series, and I really liked the effect that this week's Gibbs had on Tony -- Tony yelling at him on the plane about Franks was nice; when Tony mans up & approaches Gibbs more as a peer, it's always good. ;D But some random thoughts &/or likes, I guess: -- Gibbs hug with Abby in her lab -- like others, I thought it meant Gibbs was outa there again. I yelled to Dr. Shy, "HE'S TELLING HER GOODBYE!!!" -- Loved the moment on the plane just before the dialogue started, Gibbs curled down in his seat sleeping, and Tony & Ziva sitting straight backed, almost at attention, each in exactly the same position as each other and staring at Gibbs as if unsure what to expect next. Very nice moment. -- Scenes mentioned before: the whole Casablanca thing by which Vance made his point and the riff they did of the two walking away, ala the runway scene, with Vance humming "La Marseillaise," -- And Ziva: I haven't seen anyone mention this, but her look after taking the oath -- all year she has had her head down and had a determination coupled with a forced pleasantness about things, including her becoming a citizen -- and now I see that paralleling getting past everything from Somalia. Prior to the ceremony she half tosses out her surprise that the oath requires her to renounce her home country -- which of course she knew, at least logically. She had an even more serious look of determination as she took the oath but at the moment it was done, CdeP had an expression of "omg -- it's done, it's final, no going back, all ties cut --" which struck me as so powerful and, for many I'm sure, so realistic. I don't mean that I think they'll make a huge plot line about it -- or maybe they will; who knows -- but it was a surprise and a very touching, emotional one. Very nice idea and CdeP did it wonderfully well. -- the parallel of the head down pushing to become a citizen with the head down getting past Somalia and all that happened: on our FFN forum there has been discussion about the scene in which Tim asks Ziva what she would do with a rapist, and Tony's reaction with the scene. But in all of the show, this was the most puzzling: what the hell was it with Tim's question to Ziva and SM's line reading of the question??? He asked her as if he was asking what she wanted for lunch, in a light but not wholly clueless way -- and this bugged me! Tim is not stupid or insensitive. He was played as naive and innocent when he started at NCIS but he has been allowed to grow and has seen a lot of bad stuff since becoming a field agent. So he has to be clued in to what likely happened to her in Somalia. The fact he asked the question at all was a bit weird, but I could have seen it if they played it that he wanted to know the truth and saw it as a sudden opening to ask -- very carefully and caringly -- what she might do, if she could. But no, he asked as if he didn't even know she was gone for a while, let alone that he'd been there in the middle of things himself. That was a whole WTF klinker for me that just didn't work. -- and the teaser at the end? Can't decide -- Can't believe that Gibbs would "allow" Jack to be back at his store without being there himself or having someone standing by -- but also can't believe that the next 2 seconds after the teaser we saw will be Paloma ( is that her name?) getting taken out by Gibbs and a "okay, next case?" season opener. So I hope they manage something fairly realistic -- well, within the show's version of realism. -- I liked the way Ziva & Tony related to each other through the ep. Partners. Not snarky. Supportive!Tony even showed up. At least all the questions will give us something to do while we wait for September. (aren't you sorry you asked, now???  ) |
|
|
|
Post by dzero on May 30, 2010 11:03:50 GMT -5
(aren't you sorry you asked, now??? ) I'd reply but am too tired ;D Mentioning Ziva, I don't even remember "the rapist" line? I did notice her noticing Gibbs and Tony missing from her ceremony and that was kind of sad but what is really sad is how little Ziva we got all season long. After that first couple episodes all she had to do is a little comic relief each ep about the citizenship test. Did she kick anyones ass all season? If not then that is unacceptable  |
|
|
|
Post by Mr.Clark on May 30, 2010 11:13:03 GMT -5
(aren't you sorry you asked, now??? ) I'd reply but am too tired ;D Mentioning Ziva, I don't even remember "the rapist" line? I did notice her noticing Gibbs and Tony missing from her ceremony and that was kind of sad but what is really sad is how little Ziva we got all season long. After that first couple episodes all she had to do is a little comic relief each ep about the citizenship test. Did she kick anyones ass all season? If not then that is unacceptable The Ziva rape discussion was from a couple weeks ago but due to the debate going on at the FFN Board between shy, Marcus and myself the lines have blurred a bit between episodes. |
|
|
|
Post by shywriter on May 30, 2010 11:35:37 GMT -5
Mentioning Ziva, I don't even remember "the rapist" line? If you didn't notice her statement about slicing and dicing, stomping and chomping, and making teeny weeny little mincemeat pieces of an attacker's gonads, then you're made of much stronger stuff than is Dr. Shy, who turns green at the mere mention of any threat to his boys. But Mr. C is (as always) right; the last several eps have become one long finale muddled in my head...  ) |
|
|
|
Post by ML Fan on May 31, 2010 16:13:01 GMT -5
Season finale and no comments? I thought it was entertaining enough but I have to be honest and say I am just damn confused by the overlapping plots now . Mostly the lawyer lady, I mean what the hell is she doing there? She is a civilian and nobody trusts her but she is working for NCIS as a consultant? She admires Bell and wants sexy time with Gibbs? WTF is going on? Gibbs has always been my least favorite member of the team and episode after episode delving into his past and personality make me... well not want to puke but I am ready for them to get back to the more interesting/entertaining members of the team. meaning anyone elseI imagine Shywriter doing the happy dance at all the Casablanca references? I think that Vance's storylines so far have been far less than interesting than anyone else's because, "Knockout" was boring and had no connection to anything and I had "End Game" figured out after five minutes. I thought that the line about needing to be in L.A. was really just lazy writing. I don't think Callen and company need Vance there anymore than Gibbs does. I think it might've been interesting to see Gibbs and Vance have a conflict but, it's not and won't be interesting when the ending is going to be Gibbs getting exactly what he wants, but, I learned a long time ago not to expect TPTB to do much with the director. As far as the season's finale, it was okay but, nothing to be writing home about. As soon as Tony promised Ziva he would be somewhere it was too obvious that he was going to miss hearing swearing in as an American citizen. I also thought that it was it was obvious that Gibbs' father was going to become a target because of the murder that Gibbs committed. I think that Hart is there to make sure that there are no long-term legal ramifications for Gibbs because of this murder and its investigation, nothing else, nothing more. I thought that this season finale was rushed, but, I learned not to expect much or to set my expectations too high for season finales for this show after "Angel Of Death" aired. |
|
Whatever misgivings any of them might have had in the first few years about their characters or where things were going (or the choices made when DB left to have SB take over) have to have been quieted somewhat by their success.
) have discussed here, such as West Wing (and probably all the other great series mentioned), but it's a good way to escape for an hour every week. Like most network shows, there will be gaffes and "adjustments" of real life rules to fit into their 42 minute allotment. It's frustrating, in that it wouldn't take all that much thinking by the writers to make it better, but there may be any number of constraints or agreements or other behind the scenes issues that affect the show in ways we will never know.
) 
but I'm not going to give it a 10. Perhaps a 9? 
)