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Post by ML Fan on Oct 15, 2009 21:19:37 GMT -5
Have you seen "Code Of Conduct?" Tell us what you thought. There are spoilers and discussions on our sister site NCIS Special Ops, if you're interested.
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Post by Michele on Oct 17, 2009 1:45:31 GMT -5
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Post by shywriter on Oct 20, 2009 20:02:33 GMT -5
No thinking needed about this one: 10+!! Cute cute cute! Fun moments, a usual-NCIS plot but with a more leaderly Tony... THEY'RE BACK! ;D  (and for you grumpy types who want this to be a Jag-procedural thing ... sorry, but this is a warm fuzzy one for us character fans!  ) |
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Post by dzero on Oct 20, 2009 23:30:36 GMT -5
No thinking needed about this one: 10+!! Agreed Who is asking for that? I myself avoided NCIS for the first year because I thought it was going to be too JAG like, finally everyone here convinced me it wasn't.  |
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Post by shywriter on Oct 21, 2009 9:01:36 GMT -5
(and for you grumpy types who want this to be a Jag-procedural thing ... sorry, but this is a warm fuzzy one for us character fans! ) Who is asking for that? I myself avoided NCIS for the first year because I thought it was going to be too JAG like, finally everyone here convinced me it wasn't. I've probably been hanging out at Special Ops too much ... they have little cadres of every sort of fan, and there's a batch who keep wanting crimes and team and no shipping of any sort (I don't watch names too carefully so don't know for sure, but I suspect that group may also have a lot of the Ziva-haters among them... they just seem to want the S1 & S2-Kate-cardboard days back...) Guess I was just trying to protect myself from those who think "cute" isn't the best way to go for a crime show...  |
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Post by dzero on Oct 21, 2009 13:54:45 GMT -5
I've probably been hanging out at Special Ops too much ... they have little cadres of every sort of fan, and there's a batch who keep wanting crimes and team and no shipping of any sort (I don't watch names too carefully so don't know for sure, but I suspect that group may also have a lot of the Ziva-haters among them... they just seem to want the S1 & S2-Kate-cardboard days back...) Guess I was just trying to protect myself from those who think "cute" isn't the best way to go for a crime show... LOl I now find myself very confused because I didn't think this ep was had any "ship" moments. and for some reason just using the word ship as short for relationship is unappealing to me, strange because I usually like internet lingoAnd futher confused because I don't really think of S1 & S2 as cardboard  . Is that how other people see those early seasons? As basically Jag style drama? From what I can tell NCIS was different and much better and more fun from the get go. |
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Post by shywriter on Oct 21, 2009 16:06:56 GMT -5
LOl I now find myself very confused because I didn't think this ep was had any "ship" moments. and for some reason just using the word ship as short for relationship is unappealing to me, strange because I usually like internet lingoI can pretty well guarantee your confusion is less them and more my demented filter of what I find there. While I think the "little shipper hearts " out there (a term of art; did you know?) probably took those last dozen lines or so as pure Tiva, even if only pre-Tiva or Tiva-in-waiting (dropping the word "love" with meaningful long glances, etc :  I was extrapolating lighthearted banter and cute funnies = fluffier show = shippiness. (It took me the longest time to figure out what the hell "shippers" were when I first found FFN ... but the rest is history! ;D It is kinda a weird word, but I like to think it is a bit fitting, with the whole "ships passing in the night" idiom appropriate too...) okay, well, maybe not people... totally imposing my reactions on things with that description. Maybe "cardboard"as a bit rash. How about "two-dimensional?" They were all so shallow and OMG, did Kate ever NOT whine? ...but I still agree with your statement -- I tried watching JAG a couple times and it left me cold; if NCIS characters were two dimensional, they were one! So yeah, NCIS was much better from the start but comparing S1-2 to the more recent seasons, I just like the fact they've let us see more into the characters' heads and motivations, and let them grow. |
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Post by ML Fan on Oct 21, 2009 19:54:00 GMT -5
Who is asking for that? I myself avoided NCIS for the first year because I thought it was going to be too JAG like, finally everyone here convinced me it wasn't. I've probably been hanging out at Special Ops too much ... they have little cadres of every sort of fan, and there's a batch who keep wanting crimes and team and no shipping of any sort (I don't watch names too carefully so don't know for sure, but I suspect that group may also have a lot of the Ziva-haters among them... they just seem to want the S1 & S2-Kate-cardboard days back...) Guess I was just trying to protect myself from those who think "cute" isn't the best way to go for a crime show... I think that there were a lot of people who like Tony and Kate, but, I don't think people liked Kate all that much if she was by herself. I think that on paper Kate had the potential and all the skills to be a great agent, but, when she was actually on "NCIS" I thought that she never really got to use the skills that she learned in her previous jobs and she never really got to have her own storyline and we learned very little about her. I also thought that since Ziva has come to "NCIS" that for the most part that the "NCIS" has improved a lot and I like the dynamic between Tony, Ziva, and McGee much more than I did when I was Tony, Kate and McGee and I think it's because it seemed like Tony, Kate and McGee were always vying for the attention of Gibbs. I really enjoyed "Code Of Conduct" and I thought that the while it was a Halloween episode that it wasn't an over-the-top holiday themed episode and I thought Tony had way too much fun in this episode which I thought was a little ironic considering his feelings about Halloween. I also know some people don't like how Tony is written week to week so differently, but, I think that MW is a rare actor who can convincingly pull off both the comedic scenes and the dramatic and I'm sure dramatic Tony will be back soon enough. I also had a feeling that Ziva was going to be called "Probie" in this episode, but, I went into the episode fully expecting that. I thought that the end where Ziva got the last laugh was priceless. It was also nice to see Palmer again. Off to watch "Code Of Conduct" again.  I give it a 10 out of 10! |
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Post by Michele on Oct 21, 2009 20:19:44 GMT -5
NCIS #1 for the 5th week with 21+ million viewers
Time Net Show 18-49 Rating 18-49 Share Viewers Live+SD (million)
8:00 CBS NCIS 4.5 13 19.908
NBC The Biggest Loser 3.4 10 9.014
FOX Baseball Playoffs, Angels v. Yankees 2.9 8 9.287
ABC Shark Tank (finale) 1.7 5 6.034
CW 90210 1.1 3 2.380
8:30 CBS NCIS 4.8 13 21.298
NBC The Biggest Loser 3.7 10 9.510
FOX Baseball Playoffs, Angels v. Yankees 3.1 8 9.665
ABC Shark Tank (finale) 2.0 5 6.440
CW 90210 1.1 3 2.336
9:00 NBC The Biggest Loser 4.1 11 10.037
CBS NCIS: Los Angeles 4.0 10 17.032
FOX Baseball Playoffs, Angels v. Yankees 3.2 8 10.110
ABC Dancing With the Stars 3.0 8 13.450
CW Melrose Place 0.7 2 1.588
9:30 NBC The Biggest Loser 4.4 11 10.520
CBS NCIS: Los Angeles 3.8 10 15.983
ABC Dancing With the Stars 3.4 8 15.027
FOX Baseball Playoffs, Angels v. Yankees 3.0 7 8.945
CW Melrose Place 0.7 2 1.461
10:00 FOX Baseball Playoffs, Angels v. Yankees 3.4 9 9.856
CBS The Good Wife 2.8 7 13.195
ABC the forgotten 2.2 6 8.522
NBC The Jay Leno Show 2.0 5 5.791
10:30 FOX Baseball Playoffs, Angels v. Yankees 3.1 9 8.726
CBS The Good Wife 2.7 7 12.595
ABC the forgotten 1.7 5 6.719
NBC The Jay Leno Show 1.6 5 5.058
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Post by shywriter on Oct 22, 2009 18:06:37 GMT -5
I think that there were a lot of people who like Tony and Kate, but, I don't think people liked Kate all that much if she was by herself. I think that on paper Kate had the potential and all the skills to be a great agent, but, when she was actually on "NCIS" I thought that she never really got to use the skills that she learned in her previous jobs and she never really got to have her own storyline and we learned very little about her. I also thought that since Ziva has come to "NCIS" that for the most part that the "NCIS" has improved a lot and I like the dynamic between Tony, Ziva, and McGee much more than I did when I was Tony, Kate and McGee I'd seen you mention the point before about Kate not having been given a chance, but not being a big Kate fan I probably just passed by without thinking much about it. But for some reason, in this context, it finally clicked and I suddenly started wondering what we might have seen from and about Kate -- and in response, the rest of the team -- if she had remained on long enough to have SB's more character driven, character development scripts available, and wondered what we would have learned about her and, especially, what if any growth the might have provided her (no reason that she would not have developed, since the other main characters all did.) I've never much liked the female characters on NCIS other than Ziva and Hollis, but now you really have me wondering what might have developed around Kate. Just having SB in charge doesn't guarantee a good character -- Jenny is a prime example -- but Kate's character was never put in that later environment where we saw so much happen with Gibbs, Tony & Tim. Hmm. Interesting... |
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Post by ML Fan on Oct 22, 2009 20:36:59 GMT -5
I think that there were a lot of people who like Tony and Kate, but, I don't think people liked Kate all that much if she was by herself. I think that on paper Kate had the potential and all the skills to be a great agent, but, when she was actually on "NCIS" I thought that she never really got to use the skills that she learned in her previous jobs and she never really got to have her own storyline and we learned very little about her. I also thought that since Ziva has come to "NCIS" that for the most part that the "NCIS" has improved a lot and I like the dynamic between Tony, Ziva, and McGee much more than I did when I was Tony, Kate and McGee I'd seen you mention the point before about Kate not having been given a chance, but not being a big Kate fan I probably just passed by without thinking much about it. But for some reason, in this context, it finally clicked and I suddenly started wondering what we might have seen from and about Kate -- and in response, the rest of the team -- if she had remained on long enough to have SB's more character driven, character development scripts available, and wondered what we would have learned about her and, especially, what if any growth the might have provided her (no reason that she would not have developed, since the other main characters all did.) I've never much liked the female characters on NCIS other than Ziva and Hollis, but now you really have me wondering what might have developed around Kate. Just having SB in charge doesn't guarantee a good character -- Jenny is a prime example -- but Kate's character was never put in that later environment where we saw so much happen with Gibbs, Tony & Tim. Hmm. Interesting... I have always liked Abby and Ziva and Hollis but for the most part I really don't think female characters are a strong point on this show and they seem to exceptions rather than the norm. I think that for whatever reason(s) that McGee was developed and given a centric episode before Kate got an episode where she was front and center and so I was not surprised when Sasha Alexander left "NCIS." I thought that Kate deserved to be developed and allowed to use the skills that got her a job at NCIS, unfourtunately we only got to see a bit of that in "Twilight." I have to agree with you that just because SB is writing "NCIS" in a more character driven manner that it doesn't guarantee anything. I also don't think that for whatever reason that TPTB and the writers didn't really seem to want a female NCIS director and it showed in how Jenny was written because her character seemed to be written so inconsistently and lacking a real direction a lot of the time. I think that for the first year and a half that Jenny really didn't get to do much in the storylines and by the time TPTB decided to give her character storylines that didn't involve her past with Gibbs it was too little, too late for me. It doesn't really matter to me who plays Vance because I think TPTB and the writers got what they wanted in having a male NCIS director and so I would expect the writing and the direction of Vance to be better and stronger than it ever was for Jenny. |
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Post by shywriter on Oct 22, 2009 21:22:02 GMT -5
I have always liked Abby and Ziva and Hollis oh, how could I have forgotten Abs! So add her to my list too... I used to wonder if that was due to having male writers back then, a male-oriented show -- but never checked to see if they had women involved in writing back then. My lazy assumption, but they didn't seem to know what to do with women other than have them be the killer of the week. More wondering and speculation -- but I can imagine someone thinking it would be a clever idea to bring in a woman from Gibbs' past, especially if it was someone who could boss him around -- all the wacky moments that could bring! But they acted before having more direction than that. All in all, more than with any other character, maybe, they really misfired with Jenny. Especially between her obsession with the Frog and the mystery illness from left field -- lots of poor judgment with her. |
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Post by AngelZ on Oct 22, 2009 21:35:26 GMT -5
I think that's a good question. I often think it's wrong to compare characters from different eras of a series - you either have a situation of the later character not being as 'good as the original' or that the original has to do so much more to establish the character. Kate was a replacement for Blackadder (whose personality didn't quite work in the pilot) and Ziva was a replacement for Kate who was never quite interesting enough. Unfortunately for Kate she was the 'straight man' in a team of quirky players. Perhaps she was burdened by her 'normalness' and in that way always flawed?
Actually Kate/Sasha was was billed above Tony/MW and I believe initially actually got more screentime and prominence than he did. I think MW just made more of the role that he was given.
So true!
I'm not sure that I'd give the ep a 10, but I liked it a lot. The humour was back in full force. I can't remember the exact line, but when Gibbs is in the lab and asks her why she's not wearing a Halloween costume her response is hilarious! Jonas brothers...McGee in tight jeans... ;D
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Post by shywriter on Oct 22, 2009 23:12:56 GMT -5
Unfortunately for Kate she was the 'straight man' in a team of quirky players. Perhaps she was burdened by her 'normalness' and in that way always flawed? Actually Kate/Sasha was was billed above Tony/MW and I believe initially actually got more screentime and prominence than he did. I think MW just made more of the role that he was given. Whenever I think of Kate I just think of her being stuck in that whiny role that they allowed to develop as "banter" -- and it may be that not only did MW make more of the role in general, he may have had a sense that the more he was the irritating but cute & funny goofball, the more they had her respond like the bratty older sister/teacher's pet -- and let's face it, there's not much likable in that. I wonder how much it would have actually held the whole team dynamic back to have Kate remain on the show... Tony getting sucked into the immature, chew with his mouth open, belching pig persona -- there really wasn't much end in sight to that while Kate was around, even though that was interspersed with more able, serious agent Tony around those scenes. From Ziva's arrival he was knocked off course a bit. Ziva came on strong and delighted in picking at him, trying to shock him or throw him off -- successfully, several times. He still was goofy and funny but it became less juvenile in content, even moving a bit more toward wit than it had been... And yeah, Blackadder -- were they thinking "Jag" when they cast her? I liked Gibbs' festive holiday "break" a lot, and just knew they'd be calling Ziva probie, but still enjoyed it when it came. Oh! And Gibb's not only picking up on Tony's "campfire," but picking up & running with the "moving campfire" line -- ;D ;D On Special Ops some were taking offense that Ziva was being called probie, since she is experienced and hardly the normal probationary agent. I love that they used it; I think we're to assume none of them are meaning it too seriously, just an excuse to pick on her a bit and take advantage of it for fun (and maybe to get out of a bit of busy work.) Akin to Franks still calling Gibbs 'probie;' not meant literally any more at all. And now a question -- has it been only Tony who has called Tim probie, at least with any regularity? (or maybe Kate, once or twice -- or even that much?) I was trying to remember if Gibbs ever did and now don't think I ever heard him do so -- "Elf Lord," sure... but Probie? |
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Post by ML Fan on Oct 23, 2009 16:49:26 GMT -5
From what I remember Jenny wasn't originally supposed to be a series regular and then eventually she became a series regular, but, I think that she continued to in my opinion still be written like a recurring character. I think that the intent was to have a woman from Gibbs's past to boss him around, but, I think that Gibbs and the rest of his team following his lead and walked all over her. I think that it seemed that whenever something went wrong that somehow Jenny was put in a less than stellar light. I think that in Seasons 1 and 2 that whenever something went wrong that the same type of thing happened to Kate. I think that "NCIS" already has too many series regulars without adding the director as a series regular. You're correct, there were no female writers on "NCIS."
As far as MW doing more what he was given I really don't think Sasha was given much to work with. Kate was written like a stereotypical career woman where career was always number one and the writers and TPTB never really did much to develop her personality outside of work and she was written like the perfectionist, older sister. I think that after awhile all she really got to do was the banter with Tony, but, sometimes I think she and Tony just bantered for the sake of bantering but, it really did nothing to move the case along.
I know that Sasha Alexander was in the credits ahead of MW, but, it never felt that way or anywhere near even as far as character development and I think it is hard for me to see Tony be more mature like he is now with Kate still being around. I also think that with Kate that the writers seemed to focus a lot Kate being a female in a male dominated field which grew thin for me quickly.
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. Is that how other people see those early seasons? As basically Jag style drama? From what I can tell NCIS was different and much better and more fun from the get go. 
I was extrapolating lighthearted banter and cute funnies = fluffier show = shippiness.
I give it a 10 out of 10!