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Post by AngelZ on May 13, 2009 19:24:20 GMT -5
Beware the Promo Monkeys! The TiVa hype is ridiculous (I guess because I'm not a Shipper) and it saddens me that the show/producers/pr department has prostituted itself in this way to promote the show. The hype must be working though because NCIS beat the Mentalist in the ratings.
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Post by Michele on May 13, 2009 20:58:01 GMT -5
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Post by Michele on May 13, 2009 21:57:22 GMT -5
I cringed at the sound of Tony's arm cracking.
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Post by ML Fan on May 14, 2009 1:04:00 GMT -5
Beware the Promo Monkeys! The TiVa hype is ridiculous (I guess because I'm not a Shipper) and it saddens me that the show/producers/pr department has prostituted itself in this way to promote the show. The hype must be working though because NCIS beat the Mentalist in the ratings. I think that TPTB did the same type of thing when Sasha/Kate was still on NCIS in a lesser degree but, that it's different and better this time around because Tony seems to be more sincere and respectful to Ziva than he was with Kate. I thought that Kate really didn't get to do much unless she was bantering with Tony and I thought that Kate, Tony and McGee seemed to play this constant game of either monkey in the middle or this game of constantly acting like young children wanting Gibbs's attention. I think that Tony and Ziva don't just banter to take up screen time, but, that it has a point, but, I didn't think that was the case when Kate was there. I think Kate got stuck in the Tate storyline but, that we learned very, very little about Kate on her own and I wanted her to develop and be her own person without having Tony with her but, that never happened in my opinion. I think that NCIS has gotten better as it has gone along unlike countless shows thanks in part to Ziva/Cote de Pablo and her chemistry with not just Tony, but, McGee, Abby and the rest of the cast as well.
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Post by AngelZ on May 14, 2009 19:35:53 GMT -5
I think that's an unfair comparison. While I enjoy the gutsiness that they've given Ziva's character which they were never quite able to do with Kate, it's because they've developed the new character based on what they've learnt from the past. Ziva is Kate.2 - how they'd write Kate if they had the chance to do it again. Kate's character started off as a sexually confident, strong willed, skilled profiler, secret service agent and then they watered her down. We only had Kate for 2 seasons, we've had Ziva for 4 - that's a lot more time to develop and get to know the character. When Ziva arrived she came out of the box with a bang. She had all of the qualities that we wanted Kate to have. We already knew the other personalities so she didn't have to share 'getting to know you' time with 4 or 5 other characters. They pretty much picked up with Ziva where they had left off with Kate in the UST stakes with Tony. There was no mucking around. Remember that initially they paired Kate and Gibbs off with the UST moments.
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Post by ML Fan on May 14, 2009 21:41:09 GMT -5
I think that's an unfair comparison. While I enjoy the gutsiness that they've given Ziva's character which they were never quite able to do with Kate, it's because they've developed the new character based on what they've learnt from the past. Ziva is Kate.2 - how they'd write Kate if they had the chance to do it again. Kate's character started off as a sexually confident, strong willed, skilled profiler, secret service agent and then they watered her down. We only had Kate for 2 seasons, we've had Ziva for 4 - that's a lot more time to develop and get to know the character. When Ziva arrived she came out of the box with a bang. She had all of the qualities that we wanted Kate to have. We already knew the other personalities so she didn't have to share 'getting to know you' time with 4 or 5 other characters. They pretty much picked up with Ziva where they had left off with Kate in the UST stakes with Tony. There was no mucking around. Remember that initially they paired Kate and Gibbs off with the UST moments. I think it's a fair comparison in that Kate and now Ziva are the "NCIS" female leads. I think that Kate got watered down and watered down quickly, everytime the writers tried to use Kate's profiling skills she ended up being proven wrong in the end. I wanted Kate to have a personality but, she was written like a stereotypical '80's woman where all she did was work and the writers seemed to reinforce that she was in a male dominated field every two seconds. I also didn't like it when the writers had Kate lose her gun, I thought that the writers focused far too much time on Kate's mistakes opposed to the positive things she could bring to the team. I felt like the writers never even gave the audience a chance to get to know Kate instead all she seemed to do was work and I think the writers favored Tony over Kate and that Kate, Tony, and McGee didn't work well as a team and that in my opinion someone had to go. I think that Tony respects Ziva in a way that he never did with Kate and I don't think Tony could compliment Kate on anything and be sincere about it for more than a second. I can watch Ziva and see Ziva without Tony having to be there, but, to me, that never happened with Kate.
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Post by AngelZ on May 17, 2009 19:23:32 GMT -5
I don't think you actually read what I wrote. I agree with you that Kate was a badly written character and that Ziva was a breath of fresh air after wishy-washy incompetent Kate. (I actually prefer Agent Cassidy to Ziva simply because she's less of a know-it-all than Ziva, but that's another story). Rather just bagging Kate and sticking Ziva on a pedestal I am attempting to analyze the reasons why the characters are so different and why the character of Ziva has been successful.
1) The benefit of hindsight = avoiding past mistakes 2) Ziva arriving into an already established cast = her character didn't need to compete for time to establish her character
My only point being that it's unfair to compare the success/failure of the characters without first acknowledging that they were launched from completely different starting blocks. Ziva was given a massive head start in that particular race.
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Post by dzero on May 17, 2009 19:25:12 GMT -5
I don't think you actually read what I wrote. lol
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Post by ML Fan on May 19, 2009 18:16:30 GMT -5
I don't think you actually read what I wrote. I agree with you that Kate was a badly written character and that Ziva was a breath of fresh air after wishy-washy incompetent Kate. (I actually prefer Agent Cassidy to Ziva simply because she's less of a know-it-all than Ziva, but that's another story). Rather just bagging Kate and sticking Ziva on a pedestal I am attempting to analyze the reasons why the characters are so different and why the character of Ziva has been successful. 1) The benefit of hindsight = avoiding past mistakes 2) Ziva arriving into an already established cast = her character didn't need to compete for time to establish her character My only point being that it's unfair to compare the success/failure of the characters without first acknowledging that they were launched from completely different starting blocks. Ziva was given a massive head start in that particular race. No, I completely read what you wrote and I feel that Kate was never acknowledged much unless she either made a mistake or with Tony. I think that while yes, that Ziva may have had a headstart that TPTB really never cared all that much for Kate's character alone and it really showed when McGee got his centric episode before she did and so it was not surprising at all that Sasha Alexander wanted out of NCIS to me. I don't give the writers all that much credit for hindsight because of TPTB wrote and treated Jenny which was to me an awful lot like how they wrote and treated Kate and I think that it was a terrible idea to make the NCIS director a series regular. Whenever something went wrong during Seasons Three through Five, I think that it was usually in some way or another that Jenny looked either awkward or like she didn't know what she was doing. I also think that TPTB had no idea what to do with Jenny, it wasn't working having her be Gibbs's former love interest and his boss and it was clear that the team didn't respect Jenny and that this started with Gibbs and that the team simply followed his lead for the most part. Jenny came in with an established cast too, but, I think that if the writers had really learned from their previous mistakes that Jenny would've been written better, but, I think that she was written as poorly as Kate was and I wondered in both cases what were the actual things that made them standout over other applicants for their jobs, because, we didn't get to see much of either of them in situations where they got to use the skills that they would've learned in preivous jobs that would be useful as part of their work with NCIS but that never really happened to me.
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Post by AngelZ on May 19, 2009 19:18:04 GMT -5
I think that it was a terrible idea to make the NCIS director a series regular. I didn't know you felt that way.
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Post by ML Fan on May 19, 2009 20:09:03 GMT -5
I think that it was a terrible idea to make the NCIS director a series regular. I didn't know you felt that way. I thought that maybe that the writers would give Vance more of a role and something contructive to do on "NCIS" and that maybe that role could be interesting, but, it's not and I was really hoping that Vance would be written better than he is.
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Post by AngelZ on May 21, 2009 22:19:49 GMT -5
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Post by Michele on Nov 22, 2009 3:46:56 GMT -5
This episode and Aliyah are on back to back next week, 2 hours of NCIS. then its the wait until July for season 7. but thats ok I watch the new episodes online.
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