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Post by ML Fan on Jul 14, 2009 19:10:04 GMT -5
I think that it can be frustrating for any reader in any fandom to start a fic and then for whatever reason that the writer(s) stops updating the fanfic(s) or writing and the fic is left unresolved and incomplete. ML Fan, it's clear that this is an issue for you and you certainly are not alone. This is an entirely valid explanation for fewer reviews on WIPs. Not so much for the one-shots or completed stories, though. No, shywriter being left with too many incomplete fics is the main reason that I've seen people give as far as why they don't read fics until they are completely done and I can't blame someone for waiting until a fic is done if they've been left hanging previously. I also think while it is great to see a creative person with lots of ideas, but, that sometimes I think writers have started too many fics and that is bound to make some people wait until a fic is completely done as well.
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Post by shywriter on Jul 14, 2009 19:50:27 GMT -5
ML Fan, it's clear that this is an issue for you and you certainly are not alone. This is an entirely valid explanation for fewer reviews on WIPs. Not so much for the one-shots or completed stories, though. No, shywriter being left with too many incomplete fics is the main reason that I've seen people give as far as why they don't read fics until they are completely done and I can't blame someone for waiting until a fic is done if they've been left hanging previously. (emphasis added)ML Fan, the issue was not why people don't read. The issue -- or my request, actually -- was "if you read fanfic and enjoy it, it would be a good thing if you told the author that." The "if you read..." part pretty much meant those people OTHER THAN the ones not reading.
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Post by ML Fan on Jul 15, 2009 12:49:44 GMT -5
No, shywriter being left with too many incomplete fics is the main reason that I've seen people give as far as why they don't read fics until they are completely done and I can't blame someone for waiting until a fic is done if they've been left hanging previously. (emphasis added)ML Fan, the issue was not why people don't read. The issue -- or my request, actually -- was "if you read fanfic and enjoy it, it would be a good thing if you told the author that." The "if you read..." part pretty much meant those people OTHER THAN the ones not reading. No, that wasn't what I meant. I wasn't giving my personal opinion about why readers aren't leaving reviews. I understand that reviews and feedback are very important to you shywriter.
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Post by Aerie on Jul 15, 2009 13:11:53 GMT -5
Whose personal opinion were you giving.
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Post by mari on Jul 15, 2009 16:58:33 GMT -5
Yeah, but point is if everybody only read and reviewed completed stories there were no reviews and why would we need FFnet and LJ with their review and comment functions then? Fanfic isn’t like writing a book, the internet isn’t like a traditional bookstore. Great point -- nor is it a library, which becomes an entitlement in many places -- a taxpayer may have a local public library or a student may have a university library which becomes essentially an entitlement of sorts, given the taxes or tuition paid. With fanfic, readers don't have to pay. That too, but that’s not even what I thought of…the whole discussion here stresses the duty and obligation part of reviews so much… but can’t we perhaps also see them as a great means for exchange and communication? (In case people leave them, which is the root of the problem of course - so yes, I'm going off-topic here, sorry) Sure reviews take time and if only a few minutes, sure it might be more convenient to just read and go on to the next story or chapter without one or two sentences about what you like… but… am I the only one thinking that it’s actually cool to be able to do exactly that? To be able to tell authors why and that you loved their story / character etc? Maybe it’s just weirdo me, but back before the internet, when I read a book and got into it and wanted (and did) reread it over and over again… I was silly enough to really want to tell the author that I did. But there was no way. (Believe me, being a shy kid living behind the moon writing to the publishing house for the author’s address to write them eventually was no option) Now though, with the internet it’s so easy to leave a fanfic writer a few lines saying how much you like her / his style… or even to easily find the email address of a published writer after reading a book. Am I the only one thinking that reviews are fun and a great chance, that with fic they often even are an opportunity to ask a writer why she wrote something in a certain way? That being said, I do feel bad for being behind about five stories lately, neglecting reviews while using my fic time trying to finish challenge fic in time…
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Post by aurora2424 on Jul 15, 2009 18:02:25 GMT -5
Am I the only one thinking that reviews are fun and a great chance, that with fic they often even are an opportunity to ask a writer why she wrote something in a certain way?
To jump in and answer your question Mari, no I don't think you're the only one who thinks that this is both a fun opportunity and a integral part of the fanfiction process. Nor do I think Shywriter is expressing a view that is unique to her.
In fact, I'm a little disheartened by the dichotomy that has been set forth here. By insinuating that writers should "approach writing with certain mindset" or that they somehow "burn" readers when they turn away from their story, suggests that readers are the more important party in the exchange. Like the reader's time investment is more important than the writer's and for it he or she is "owed" an ending. (I see visions of dancing monkeys)...
Obviously, I'm exaggerating slightly, but as a reader/writer I think the relationship of fan fiction is closer to a collaboration - a give and take between audience and writer more so than other forms of entertainment.
In other words, I agree with Mari.
Writing fan fiction is a partnership of sorts - a lovely hobby where writer and reader pay homage to some else's imaginative brainchild by adding to it. For example, I'm a big fan of Shy's Noblesse Oblige. As an in-progress complex fiction, I want to do everything I can to help Shy finish it. Recognizing that it takes hours and hours to write and edit, I respect and appreciate her commitment and I understand that the main thing I can do to help that process is to review and motivate Shy (the reviewer is, in my opinion, the cheerleader, the provider of enthusiasm when Shy's, or any writers', runs out).
On the flipside of this, I know as a writer I feel a certain responsibility to finish something when people have reviewed. It is that contract that keeps me determined to finish when I don't want to continue. I feel no responsibility to those anonymous "hits".
Sure one side or the other breaks down the process at times - but frankly, it's this give and take that's the gas which keeps the engines of fan fiction running.
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Herumor
Devoted Fan
I'm wracked by guilt...
Posts: 209
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Post by Herumor on Jul 15, 2009 22:07:28 GMT -5
Am I the only one thinking that reviews are fun and a great chance, that with fic they often even are an opportunity to ask a writer why she wrote something in a certain way? Nope. ;D In fact, I'm a little disheartened by the dichotomy that has been set forth here. By insinuating that writers should "approach writing with certain mindset" or that they somehow "burn" readers when they turn away from their story, suggests that readers are the more important party in the exchange. Like the reader's time investment is more important than the writer's and for it he or she is "owed" an ending. (I see visions of dancing monkeys)... I like to think about it more in the light of an ancient storyteller, you either are good at it, capturing your audience attention, or you're not. Everything else is a bonus. I don't write for the reviews, I do it for myself, and for the story itself; i want the story out of my head. If people want to tell me what they thought, whether they liked it or not, hey, bonus! Obviously, I'm exaggerating slightly, but as a reader/writer I think the relationship of fan fiction is closer to a collaboration - a give and take between audience and writer more so than other forms of entertainment. In other words, I agree with Mari. Me too! For example, I'm a big fan of Shy's Noblesse Oblige. As an in-progress complex fiction, I want to do everything I can to help Shy finish it. Recognizing that it takes hours and hours to write and edit, I respect and appreciate her commitment and I understand that the main thing I can do to help that process is to review and motivate Shy (the reviewer is, in my opinion, the cheerleader, the provider of enthusiasm when Shy's, or any writers', runs out). This is, I think, the prickly bit. I agree with you, and Mari and Shy, but having arrived at the fandom rather late I've found myself many times facing an unfinished story, by an author that has not been seen or heard from in years, and no amount of reviews or PM-ing has done any good. It's frustrating, infuriating. That said, I've started many stories anyway, and if it's any good I'll keep on reading even when I know that chances are I'll never get to read the end - Roguie, Reylinn and Precious Jax's stories are but a few examples. It kills me that many of their stories, really, really good ones are unfinished, and it seems that they'll stay that way, but I don't regret reading them. I confess that while reading an older story I only review after finishing, but I do try to leave at least a comment after each chapter of new stories as they come out. I know that I like when people leave me reviews, even if it's only to say 'hey, nice one'. Anything else it's a bonus, really. ;D
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Post by ML Fan on Jul 15, 2009 23:14:51 GMT -5
Whose personal opinion were you giving. I've seen the lack of finished fics given as a major reason why people may not review until a fic is done both here and at NCIS Special Ops as an example.
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Post by Aerie on Jul 15, 2009 23:22:53 GMT -5
I really love this conversation - 'hearing' what you authors have to say is so interesting. It reminds me of "back in the day" when writers discussed their stories here.
ML Fan can start another thread for FF recommendations and the conversation can continue here. We'll need a clever thread title eventually.
Question: Do any of you writers spurn praise and email reviewers to ask for a critique. Would you prefer to only receive a real critique and not have to read, "Great story, keep those chapters coming." ;D
When I used to read fan fic I always reviewed with praise, but never criticized. If I didn't like the story I stopped reading.
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Herumor
Devoted Fan
I'm wracked by guilt...
Posts: 209
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Post by Herumor on Jul 16, 2009 0:14:52 GMT -5
Question: Do any of you writers spurn praise and email reviewers to ask for a critique. Would you prefer to only receive a real critique and not have to read, "Great story, keep those chapters coming." ;D I'd rather have honest reviews, good and bad rather than none at all. If my story turns a reader away after a few chapters, I want to hear about it, what was it that bother them about it; I might not change anything, but it's always good to know. Of course, praise is always good for the soul ;D
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