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Post by shywriter on Mar 4, 2006 20:31:56 GMT -5
Sorry for the delay, but there's a Challenge over on FFN's M/L Forum, "Blah Bad Woof Woof" that should be reposted here. As it was largely generated by DAR regulars, and has already been answered by our own Maria, ( www.fanfiction.net/s/2828609/1/) it bears repeating so MORE of you can play:
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Post by shywriter on Mar 5, 2006 13:38:26 GMT -5
Okay, peeps: two responses so far... who's next? ~ ~
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Post by ML Fan on Apr 2, 2006 22:34:11 GMT -5
I think that we need a new fanfic challenge, any suggestions? I also challenge fanfic readers to leave a review for a fanfic because, new writers of this or any fandom can see on FF.net that their work is being read, but, they may feel a bit discouraged if they see people are reading their work but, not reviewing it.
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Post by shywriter on Apr 2, 2006 23:55:45 GMT -5
I think that we need a new fanfic challenge, any suggestions? Actually, I'm plotting a new and different challenge (okay, given that this fandom is several years in the making, probably not new or different, but already done before my time. Still... work with me here, people!!) I hope to have it up within a week or so... and I have witnesses; I sent some feelers out to test-drive the concept... (right, peeps? Peeps?) *Crickets chirping...*so if you can hang in a bit I might have something fun to try! ~ ~ (geez, no pressure now, eh?)PS: Thanks for the boost about reviews, ML Fan! We want to know when readers want more! ;D
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Post by ML Fan on Apr 3, 2006 0:58:17 GMT -5
I know that new writers to this or any fandom may feel especially discouraged if they see that people are reading their work but not reviewing.
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Post by Aerie on Apr 3, 2006 11:35:38 GMT -5
Writers are Kings. They rule. They can do no wrong. If a reader doesn't like what she/he reads, don't read it. I have questions. I don't understand why a fan fic writer needs the praise of readers. I don't understand why a ff writer apologizes for taking a long time to continue their story. I don't understand why a ff writer would want mere readers to give them ideas for continuation, or worse, for an ending. ie: Will Max hop into bed with Logan, alec or Sketchy? Tell me what you want to read! Ahhhhhhhhhhh.Don't creative writers, like artists, have a vision? Are the writers insecure? Don't they enjoy the process of creativity and posting publishing their work on-line? Does this mean if one cranky reader says the writing and story is crap that the writer will burst into tears and consider slashing their wrists? I don't understand a writer who will not accept anonymous reviews. Writers ask for praise, if it's negative they get cranky or stop writing or remove their story. What's that about? I don't get it.
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Post by Mia22 on Apr 3, 2006 14:04:44 GMT -5
Haha Aerie you sound like a Paulie P. posting….Good news is to you I get to talk back. Sometimes readers are like the bullies on the playground, belittling others makes them feel better. Sad but true. Other times people have good intentions, but unfortunately someone forgot to teach them how to communicate with others and they quickly take on the bully or ‘I know better than you’ tone. Because since birth we have been graded, judged. Others are an incredibly strong influence on how we judge ourselves. We have been taught to want and seek these things our entire lives. We’re old dogs it’s hard to change. You want others to like what you do, just like most want people to like how they look. Writers are the girl looking in the mirror smiling to herself thinking, ‘I look good.’ Reviewers are the guy that picks them up and checks them out and either says, “Wow you look amazing” or nothing at all. If the guy says nothing enough times then she stops looking at herself in the mirror thinking “I look good.” Sad, but true. It’s the programming our society instilled in us. The judgments can be what makes it all worth it. Have you never cursed at your tv when you see the “To Be Continued” flash across the screen at the end of an episode? Never been antsy for a new season of your favorite show to start? You get hooked into a story, it’s like a drug . You need more. Not to mention the writer could be apologizing to all those who said, “UPDATE SOON” and sent numerous emails wondering where the story is. Pshhh….I’m sure if a writer was asking should Max a) hop into bed with Logan b) hop onto the chair with Logan c) hop into the bath with Logan….You would not complain. You don’t ask your friends if they’d rather get Thai or pizza if it doesn’t bother you one way or the other? Not to mention plenty of us are people pleasers. I keep writing for BA even when my story (that vision in my head) is over. So it makes sense to go, "so what do you want to see happen?" Doesn’t everyone have a vision? Couldn’t you see it in your head that the Hoverdrone in “The Kidz are Aiight” didn’t come for a few seconds longer? Writers are just the ones who feel the urge to share it with others or develop that short vision into something longer. Eh this is entirely too much work to do it simply for the joy of doing it and hoping someone out there likes it. If it was simply for the process of being creative and possibly making the voices (the story) inside your head stop then we would not sit and edit it….Going through it over and over trying to fix as many mistakes as you can. Then again I’m lazy, maybe a perfectionist would. And yes I’m pretty sure we are insecure. After all we are human. Eh you never know. I had a friend once who cut herself quite nicely after I told her she was a bad friend (it was a very valid statement). People are insane. Some people (reviewers, if they can be called that) can be weird or mean. I mean who’s going to cross a picket line every day unless they have to. If you can avoid people saying derogatory things about you, wouldn’t you? Yea I don’t really get that either. I’m sure for some it might just be they realize they aren’t up for writing a story like they thought they were. Others it’s just the muse/inspiration is fickle, you aren’t in control of it, it can be set off or turned off by the tiniest things. I don't get it. Once more people are insane. ;D
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Babyangel86
Devoted Fan
?Apparently there is nothing that cannot happen today.?
Posts: 470
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Post by Babyangel86 on Apr 3, 2006 16:04:54 GMT -5
Hehe... thats cos u love me and i'll never let u sleep if you didnt post just to shut me up... ;D hmm... speaking of posting and shutting up... E&O nebody :-) now now now now now now now now now now now now now now now now now now now now now now!! love u mia ;D
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Post by Mia22 on Apr 3, 2006 19:05:39 GMT -5
Hehe... thats cos u love me and i'll never let u sleep if you didnt post just to shut me up... ;D That I do. Life would be soooo much easier if I did not.
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Post by shywriter on Apr 4, 2006 0:35:34 GMT -5
First of all: Mia, you said so much, so well. You spoke for a lot of us in your response! And Aerie, I know you know already, but not all writers fit your descriptions below. You're right, many of us fit many/most/all of your points, but they are just generalizations. And, of course, for as many writers as are out there, there are different reasons for your "Why?s" But a few struck me: I don't understand why a fan fic writer needs the praise of readers. From our discussions on FFN I think it's not so much that writers need praise, as they need response. "Silence" is a terrible thing to get in response to working hours on something, then struggling through an edit or two, then finally standing back to post , aaaaaannndd... *crickets chirping.* Now that we all have a hit counter, seeing many people read and no one taking a moment to leave a fast note is hard to interpret any other way than "this sucks." Of course, praise is nicer to read than flames, but most DAR folks who write too are interested in knowing what worked, and what didn't. That sort of info helps us improve our writing. They should. And while there may be some question about wise it is to start a story and not have some idea how it should end, challenges and soliciting alternate endings is a fun way of getting new stories inspired, different styles of writing encouraged, etc. Painfully. Cringingly. Embarrassedly, childishly, eternally. (In a word: yes.) yes No... not until the first good handful of reviews are up and it hasn't been lauded as an embarrassing waste of time for the readers and the alphabet letters forced against their will to carry the message... No... I just crawl under the bed. I don't either, but I suspect it's someone who isn't interested in seeing an honest range of input for their stories. There may be any number of reasons they don't want the input, but I would hope anyone who hopes to grow as a writer invites any and all comments. Not all do ask for praise, but you're right, some do. I do think if as a writer you are out there asking for reviews and input, then you have a responsibility to take what's offered with as much grace as you can--you don't have to follow it or agree with it, but if you asked... hey, you asked! ~S~
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Babyangel86
Devoted Fan
?Apparently there is nothing that cannot happen today.?
Posts: 470
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Post by Babyangel86 on Apr 4, 2006 6:22:38 GMT -5
Hehe... thats cos u love me and i'll never let u sleep if you didnt post just to shut me up... ;D That I do. Life would be soooo much easier if I did not. Probably... but easy is never fun.... ;D .................. I agree with the answers mia and shy have given.. it pretty much sums most of it up...
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Post by ML Fan on Apr 8, 2006 13:04:07 GMT -5
If I am reading a fic and the summary says that it will be an M/L fic, I expect to see M/L in the forefront unless it is clearly noted as otherwise in the fic(s) and if it says it's an M/L fic, I don't expect to see Max and or Logan with others for long.
I think that most fanfic writers regardless of their movie/television show or ship just want to know that someone is reading and has some type of response to their work. New writers may get discouraged if there aren't reviews because they don't understand that people will likely review more once they see that the writer is continuing their fic or writing more stories.
I think that in some respects that they don't want their readers to think that their fic has been forgotten.
These people are writers who want everyone or as many people as possible to like their work.
There was a time when M/L writers got mean anonymous reviews from Dark Angel fans who liked other ships and I can see if that happened to a M/L writer why they may have just decided to no longer accept anonymous reviews and I can't blame someone for that if they were anonymously attacked, sometimes one person can ruin it for the whole group so to speak. New writers especially may not be aware of the fact that they cannot accept anonymous reviews and that they have the choice as to whether or not to choose to let reviewers leave anonymous reviews.
This depends on the content of the review, is the review just criticizing the writer just for the sake of doing so or is the review giving the writer constructive criticism in a respectful manner. I also think that some writers just expect and want praise and get upset when someone gives any criticism even if it is respectful and constructive. As a fanfic writer, I can say that while a reviewer that says "I'm enjoying your fic" is nice to hear that there really isn't much that I can do as far as receiving feedback if something like that is all that the reviewer writes.
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Post by shywriter on Apr 8, 2006 15:51:03 GMT -5
NEW CHALLENGE! (or, what have I gotten myself into this time?) This challenge is further explained on the FFN forum, but "briefly:" the Challenge comes from an idea that has been bugging me for a while, the “what if” question we have all played at some time or another: if she had free choice, what would Max chose to do with her life? (As in, money is no object, Manticore and Lydecker aren’t considerations, etc.) What career? Military, as it was what she was trained for? Girly stuff, ‘cos it’s the opposite? Stay at home mom with family? Nothing, just backpack around the country/other countries for a while? None of the above, because she never allowed herself to think about the ‘impossible?’ If you go to Tinker, Tailor, Beggar-man, Thief, you'll finmd the first installment as a set up for this challenge, with Logan asking Max exactly this question. And from here, each of you can join in! Tell me what Max would do! More details at FFN’s Forums/TV Shows/Dark Angel/Blah Blah Woof Woof/Interactive Fiction, including a few housekeeping matters, but in a nutshell, to play: –For you writers, if you want to offer a response installment, e-mail it to me at Shywr1ter@Yahoo (dot)com, and I will add it as a “chapter” bearing your name. –For non-writers, if you have an idea and would like to offer it as an idea for a response, send it to the above e-mail, PM me here, or post on the Forum topic noted above. You might even be able to poke a favorite writer into giving your idea a try. Anonymous donations are accepted as well as signed ones; it will be your choice if you want to have the idea attributed to you or not. C'mon, peeps! Don't leave me hanging with only crickets for company! ~ ~
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Post by Reilynn on Apr 11, 2006 10:32:08 GMT -5
Boy, have one little nervous breakdown and look at all I miss.... (OK, two, but still ....) Shywriter and BabyAngel have explained most of this, but here is my 2 ¢'s anyway. Writers are Kings. They rule. They can do no wrong. If a reader doesn't like what she/he reads, don't read it. I have questions. I don't understand why a fan fic writer needs the praise of readers. Technically they don't. Technically, we don't NEED chocolate either, but it is nice. I agree with Shy that there is a substantial amount of writers that just want some feedback. Personally my favorite feedback is when people let me know what worked, when they can pick up on the subtle (or sometimes not) humor I sneak in, the subtle (or sometimes not) little winks/references to some of my favorite authors/stories, or what didn't work, what they do not understand. I don't understand why a ff writer apologizes for taking a long time to continue their story. Because we delude ourselves into thinking people care. Are the writers insecure? Probably. Don't they enjoy the process of creativity and posting publishing their work on-line? Writing, yes. Editing, not so much. Little cyber-public humiliation/embarrassment when people point out your error's (and there will be errors), no. However knowing that some people enjoyed it anyway makes up for a lot.
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Post by shywriter on Apr 11, 2006 22:15:40 GMT -5
Technically, we don't NEED chocolate either, but it is nice. Speak for yourself! Extra points for a seasonal effort?
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