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Post by ciaran on Dec 4, 2004 0:30:42 GMT -5
I only met him once - in a race we were both in.
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Post by ciaran on Dec 8, 2004 5:21:53 GMT -5
Many fan fic writers love the idea of Logan crippled, in the chair forever, and hate the exo for that reason. Hmmmm. That way he can never really BE with Max and just stay a romantic figure. He is easier to control in the chair. I love him anyway at all. I've just been reading through some of the posts and this one puzzled me. Why can't Logan "be" with Max if he's still in the chair? Edited to ask "Aerie" why it's so unbelievable for someone in real life?
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Post by ML Fan on Dec 8, 2004 10:46:08 GMT -5
I think that the chair was used as obstacle as far as Max and Logan not being together, because Logan is depressed and bitter about being in the chair and doesn't view himself as a whole man because of the chair and as a consequence he doesn't view himself as good enough for Max as far as being her significant other and he thinks that he will slow her down because of the chair. So while I thought that the chair was okay for awhile, I just couldn't see Logan in a wheelchair for the entire duration of the show and I think that would be boring after awhile and I don't think that Logan gets the opportunity to grow and develop as a character if he's always in a wheelchair and I like to see a character grow and develop and the wheelchair after awhile would come across as a plot device or even a plotline of its own, but, that's just me.
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Post by Hometown9 on Dec 9, 2004 9:37:38 GMT -5
This 'chair talk' has reminded me of something else. Not to try and directly equate one with the other, but I recall one of my favorite shows from the late 1980's called Wiseguy which had a character that was in a wheelchair too. The star of the show was an undercover FBI agent and he would sometimes need to contact a person for help in an emergency or just get in touch with him for more information. That character went by the name of Lifeguard and he was something like Logan in that he was both in a wc and also skilled at using computers. While in truth the Lifeguard was a much lesser character in the total scheme of the show, he did end up at one point putting on prosthetic legs and walking. So I just wonder if there might be anything that could be said for history repeating itself. It's a stretch, I realize. But maybe somebody else has some thoughts about it.
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Post by Scirta on Dec 9, 2004 12:26:20 GMT -5
Why can't Logan "be" with Max if he's still in the chair? MLFan explained some issues, but I think Aerie meant something that has to do more with the level of injury Logan has and ... um... the physiological functions that might or might not be affected by having no feeling below a certain point. But of course every individual is different and we never knew enough about Logan's injury to be 100% certain. I also hear that there are .... ways around things and alternatives that have been thoroughly explored in fanfic focusing on the above aspect. Hometown, I remember Wiseguy. Not sure what I would think of it today, but back then (I think i was 12) I used to love it. Did I get it right that the actor playing the Lifeguard part is actually in a chair himself (I think I heard he's been having some serious health problems recently - Alzheimer?)
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Post by Aerie on Dec 9, 2004 22:07:02 GMT -5
I've been away for a couple of days because of an emergency. I'm so sorry. There was so much snow in the local mountains I had to force myself to go up and try out the snow, make sure the lifts were working, etc. Someone had to do it.
It's good to see posts from a new member. Gives us all something to think about.
So true. And we must remember that Logan was a computer nerd/journalist and wasn't a fit athlete.
I was refering to fan fiction. Most writers didn't dwell on Logan's injury and many preferred to have him "cured" and walking all over the place. There were one or two writers who wrote in detail of the physical problems of a paraplegic as in urination, intercourse, etc. After a while it became grim, to much like real life and it wasn't a satisfying read.
Let's not forget Scirta's question.
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Post by ciaran on Dec 10, 2004 0:07:34 GMT -5
A few of these comments confused me. ML Fan, do you think people in wheelchairs in real life become boring? Ack...I hope not! The thing is, an injury like Logan's is permanent. Believe me when I say I wish there was a cure. In my opinion, the miracle cure that so many writers have used is a cop out. Logan's character has nothing to do with his mobility. I do agree that many writers obsess about it but there are also a few out there who don't. As for that exoskeleton, well, it would be nice if it worked, but I can't see how it could. Logan's not an athlete? He played a pretty mean game of basketball! And I agree with Aerie about Logan's bathroom stuff. People don't need to know about that. It's private and should remain so. We don't read about what private things Max does in the bathroom, why should we have to read about Logan? As for sex, I'm gonna quote from the site I linked to earlier. "It doesn’t matter exactly what works or what doesn’t because if sex is only about penetration, then why are most lesbians smiling?" ;D I hope I haven't offended anyone.
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Post by ML Fan on Dec 10, 2004 0:19:02 GMT -5
Given that DA took place in the future and that Logan was wealthy for awhile and at least had connections because of Eyes Only, I think that the exoskeleton or something along those lines is definitely possible. I don't in any way, shape or form believe that a person's life is boring if they are in a wheelchair or disabled in another way, I do think that while the wheelchair is interesting for awhile on the show and in fics that after awhile that the chair becomes a plotline of its own or plot device and that to me is boring. I just couldn't see Logan in a wheelchair for the complete duration of the show, because, that would be boring after awhile and he wouldn't get an opportunity to grow and develop as a character and instead too much emphasis is put on the chair and not on his character.
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Post by Aerie on Dec 10, 2004 0:52:37 GMT -5
We had 19 episodes before Logan used the exo. His character showed amazing growth even though it was occasionally backwards. Being on his feet didn't do much for "character growth" in season 2. Who knows how it would have played out if TPTB had not changed the storyline. Thanks for that reminder. He was so great with that basketball. What a wonderful episode that was. It makes me smile to read that and I don't think the truth would offend anyone here. A suspension of belief is a priority for television and fan fiction - where anything is possible.
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Post by shywriter on Dec 10, 2004 0:54:54 GMT -5
Given that DA took place in the future and that Logan was wealthy for awhile and at least had connections because of Eyes Only, I think that the exoskeleton or something along those lines is definitely possible. I just couldn't see Logan in a wheelchair for the complete duration of the show, because, that would be boring after awhile and he wouldn't get an opportunity to grow and develop as a character and instead too much emphasis is put on the chair and not on his character. If you can stand another weighing in on this: It's all about the writing,and about how a writer handles the constraints provided when writing established characters and the universe in which they live-- Maybe it works to think of this issue in terms of sci-fi stories: think how much more effective it is to have speculative fiction be reasonable within the universe created in the story. I don't disagree that $$ + future means SOME recovery or enhancement, but the show didn't seem to work too hard to give us PLAUSIBLE fixes, within their universe. The pleuripotents almost seemed more reasonable than the exo (which shouldn't work on Logan given Phil's explanation--should it??). His rejection of the cells was an interesting twist. (of course, medical people might say that it was impossible so just as outlandish!) As to the 2d point: the problem with getting "bored" with Logan in the chair is that it IS a permanent injury and unless you tackle the first hurdle--a plausible cure-- you HAVE him in the chair. You sort of said it, but here the key is that the writers can develop him as a character all over the place even in the chair, with plenty of opportunity to grow/change/whatever--there is no reason the chair has to be written as the focal point. However, it's Logan's angst & failure to come to terms with things so early in his injury that gets the attention, not the injury per se. No reason future seasons couldn't get him over it! Just think, it's the writer in charge! It becomes like a fanfic challenge, in which you have certain plot points with which to cope--some thought & creativity can accomplish a lot. Anything less--as in, just being bored with his injury & throwing some haphazard "fix" in to get him on his feet-- is just lazy writing. (and a lot less fun, IMHO!) ~S~
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Post by ML Fan on Dec 10, 2004 1:10:03 GMT -5
Logan in Season 1 at least seemed to be so determined and dead set in getting what he wanted that he would stop at nothing until he what he wanted and what he wanted was to walk again. I think the wheelchair becomes depressing after awhile and often American sitcoms do this as well, they dwell on something for too long and that's what I think happens with Logan in the chair in fics and you the problem right on it's head, the problem is that the chair is written like the focal point and I don't like when something like a wheelchair is written as a focal point all the time. I think that when everything goes back to one thing about a character and in this case the chair that it becomes one demensional, even if that isn't the intent. shywriter, have you read "Reaching For The Moon" by Peking Noodle? I think that this is the perfect example of Logan not being in a wheelchair, but, still having lots of angst and drama involved and having Max and Logan and the rest of the Season 1 characters written so that they're still come across as in character even if it's an alternative universe fic. I think that when someone chooses to have Logan cured of the paralysis or out of the chair that it's not really lazy, it's just that most likely the author wants to focus on other things pertaining to Logan, not just Logan being in a wheelchair.
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Post by shywriter on Dec 10, 2004 2:33:59 GMT -5
I think that when someone chooses to have Logan cured of the paralysis or out of the chair that it's not really lazy, it's just that most likely the author wants to focus on other things pertaining to Logan, not just Logan being in a wheelchair. Maybe saying "lazy" so generally was a bit rash (who, me? ;D ) as certainly those who wish to establish an AU as Peking Noodle did certainly are free and encouraged to do so. I guess my rant is more along the lines of not switching mid-story. It's just more challenging, interesting & ultimately more satisfying to read work that just deals with whatever plot devices are given, and not wish it away--if a plausible change can take place, go for it--if not, then incorporate it somehow, even by de-emphasizing it. If you don't want it at all, set up the AU from the start as PN did. Maybe it would help to know that my obscessiveness is long standing, started as a huge fan of superhero- types since I was little-bitty. But it's funny: I will believe your superhero can do damn near anything if that's the universe you set up, but then you have to LIVE in that universe! If changes can occur consistent with the physical "realities" created, wonderful. If not, it just stinks. Why not take the time to find creative ways to get around the dilemmas? Sometimes the results make for the best reading! In summary, I guess I'm just saying Logan is a super-hero!! ;D ...we knew it all the time... ~S~
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Post by Scarab on Jan 2, 2005 2:09:37 GMT -5
I've been a lurker here for quite awhile but this thread has made me delurk and join up. I'm sorry but some of the things said here were offensive to disabled people, I think. To say the wheelchair is boring and that you can't see Logan in it all season is insulting to someone who is a full time wheelchair user. This is a full time, life time injury. In real life a person can't just be cured because it might be bvoring for other people. People can write what they want, I guess, but I liked Dark Angel because it could have happened. When Logan was cured I thought it just became like a lot of other shows that can't handle having a disabled character. Miracle cures on TV suck. If they were real, they wouldn't suck. but they aren't. Fox was brave to have a disabled leading character. They messed up the show when they ditched the chair.
This post has been edited by Aerie to delete mention of other members names.
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Post by ML Fan on Jan 2, 2005 2:19:03 GMT -5
I apologize if you were offended by my posts, I viewed Logan as a television character on a show that was set in the future where I felt that a cure to paralysis could be possible especially to those like Logan with connections and money. I think often in fics it becomes too much about the chair and not much else as far as Logan goes and I think that there is always more to Logan than the chair. I do remember that Logan wasn't originally supposed to be in a wheelchair and that Max and Logan were just supposed to be friends, but, that changed after the producers saw Michael and Jessica's chemistry.
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Post by Scarab on Jan 2, 2005 2:32:59 GMT -5
I have read alot of fanfiction actually and there is alot out there that doesn't focus on the wheelchair at all. It focusses on Logan, who just happens to use a wheelchair. Your own shywriter is one of the authors who does this. ML only is another. I'm forgetting some I know. I personally wasn't offended. I am not disabled
This post has been edited by Aerie to delete mention of other DAR members.
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