Cavehominem
Newbie
we stand alone -VNVNation-
Posts: 31
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Post by Cavehominem on Nov 1, 2002 7:25:27 GMT -5
On Oct 31st, 2002, 12:22pm, Ginny wrote:
My thoughts why they did it :
About Logan:
How often did we hear him say “Enhanced killing machine” or something like that? C.R.E.A.M. was the last ep he mentioned it, wasn´t it? Please correct me if I´m wrong.
I think, at first, he didn’t really believe that she was completely human. I don´t know what informations Logan got from the Manticore Lab Tech. Possibly only science stuff. To Manticore, Max was only a “project”, a lab rat. That´s how she saw herself, and that´s how Logan saw her. In Flushed, he saw her human side. He saw that she could feel pain, that she wasn’t that perfect soldier she should have been. And he saw that she needed someone. Like he said at the end of 411 on the DL:”Basic human impulse…not wanting to be alone.”.
Both have been hurt in the past. Logan with Daphne and Valerie, Max with Darren. I don’t think that Logan expierienced love since his parents died. Not much, anyways. And neither did Max. She´s always been treated like a soulless individuum back at Manticore, and she never got love from the Foster Family either. Maybe she couldn’t believe that someone could like/love her despite knowing what she was. Her friends at Jam Pony didn’t know what she was, to them, she was a girl like any other girl on the planet.
So, both of them were too busy with keeping their feelings hidden, with keeping themselves from getting hurt, that each of them didn’t realize that the other one liked him/her despite what he/she was.
And now that Logan was in the chair…he had to give up his player-image from before the shooting (which, to me, had been another wall he hid behind in order not to get hurt again.).
And I liked the whole couch scene! ;D When she walked into his livingroom and remembered her past, he rolled in behind her, carefully holding his distance. And as she sat down on his couch, he came just a little closer. Like if he didn´t knew what to do. As if he was afraid that, if he would get too close to her, something would happen. (That’s what it looked like to me). And when the seizure came, he finally had the courage to do the right thing: Coming closer and giving her the much needed comfort. Halelujah!
Well, I hope this makes sense. I´m famous for hopping back and forth in my thoughts.
Any other thoughts on this?
Cave
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Post by Fee on Nov 1, 2002 16:34:18 GMT -5
And I liked the whole couch scene! ;D When she walked into his livingroom and remembered her past, he rolled in behind her, carefully holding his distance. And as she sat down on his couch, he came just a little closer. Like if he didn´t knew what to do. As if he was afraid that, if he would get too close to her, something would happen. (That’s what it looked like to me). And when the seizure came, he finally had the courage to do the right thing: Coming closer and giving her the much needed comfort. Halelujah! perfectly put!! i couldn't help but go and watch it last night!
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Post by Star on Nov 1, 2002 18:03:23 GMT -5
It's funny because I came into DA late - Art Attack pretty much and it wasn't for a long time that I managed to get copies of the earlier episodes.
When I saw Flushed I was amazed at that scene and the caring it showed between the two of them so early on.
It seemed that Max's weakness at that point forced them both to drop those walls of theirs at least briefly. Such a shame that they put them back up again for so long...
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Kyre
Devoted Fan
Posts: 263
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Post by Kyre on Nov 1, 2002 22:21:09 GMT -5
Ahhh, the good old days of happy M/L discussion have returned! Thanks for starting this thread, Cave. You have a lot of good opinions and ideas. I love the way you describe Flushed. I hadn't thought about it that way before--Logan's player role being a wall to keep from getting hurt and him being afraid to approach Max too closely until he saw that she could be vulnerable--but I definitely will now. ;D My favorite ep is Art Attack, with Rising a very close second. I love all the eps, but those are the two I settled on as favorites--after much pondering. I love the closeness they share in Art Attack, being friends and kind of more but not quite; I love getting to see Logan's family and hear about some of his history; I love watching Logan play basketball; I love Max using her catburgling skills to look good for Logan and his family; I love Max deciding to save Normal's rear end. Also, Logan in a tux is a big fat plus. The ep is funny and shippy and gives Max one of those rare moments in which she can be a normal girl...albeit one who knows how to kick a lot of ass when the situation calls for it. ;D I love Rising for the development of OC's character and her finally witnessing Max and Logan in action (though not that kind of "action" ); the closeness Max and Logan share in the opening scenes; the plotline of the Reds; Logan getting frustrated but overlooking it when the time came to save Max ;D , the tenderness with which he treated Max while she was unconscious; Logan wearing leather; and the motorcycle ride at the end. The ep has a great mix of action, ship, and (most importantly) character development. In these two eps Max dresses in what I consider to be the definitive Max outfit: jeans, loose leather jacket, T-shirt, and thick-heeled boots. The dress is different, of course, but that's what was so fun about it--seeing tomboy Max in this expensive dress. She's not wearing fingerless gloves (which I hate); her hair is nice and curly; and she has meat on her bones. This is Max as I came to know her. And Logan...well, do I need to even go into how great Logan looks? I absolutely love that tux, and the leather at the end of Rising is hot too. I'm not a fan of turtlenecks, though, so Art Attack wins this round. lol Other eps are great, too, of course...and I also remember all the "moments." I'm currently in the process of copying every S1 ep from CD onto my new computer, so that I'll be able to watch these moments anytime I want, immediately. Technology is a wonderful thing ;D
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Post by Ginny on Nov 1, 2002 23:41:05 GMT -5
Oh, the happy memories. I enjoyed and loved all the scenes that have been described. I have copied the Max/Logan scenes from season 1 onto 1 tape - it doesn't fill one 6-hr SLP VHS tape! but the development of their relationship is fun to watch - and re-watch.
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Cavehominem
Newbie
we stand alone -VNVNation-
Posts: 31
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Post by Cavehominem on Nov 3, 2002 16:31:53 GMT -5
Talking about re-watching… I watched Art Attack and Blah Blah, Woof Woof last night (Yeah, I think these are my favourite eps, besides the pilot). There is this one scene in Art Attack, where I always think “Well, Logan, when nobody is watching you, then we can see something of the real Logan Cale.”. It´s the scene after the wedding toast, when Max approaches from behind. That look on his face is really great! Like “Phew! That was close!”. Best thing is, when she starts to speak, he has put his mask back on, like nothing in the whole wide world could throw him off balance. Great scene, really! ;D ;D Did anyone notice what Logan mumbled to himself in BBWW after Max left to go to Crash? Was it ´Blah Blah, Woof Woof´? I read on another thread that someone mentioned, Eyes Only was born out of guilt. I do not believe this. My opinion is, Logan started Eyes Only to proof himself to his family. What do you think? Cave.
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Post by Ginny on Nov 3, 2002 16:40:00 GMT -5
Possibly as an escape from his family, or to counter their exploitive, money-making ways. Logan didn't speak fondly of his father, but he did of his mother and I've always wondered what her influence had been on him.
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Cavehominem
Newbie
we stand alone -VNVNation-
Posts: 31
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Post by Cavehominem on Nov 3, 2002 17:13:00 GMT -5
Or Uncle Jonas´ influence.
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Wyldegod
Devoted Fan
He who dares, wins...
Posts: 160
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Post by Wyldegod on Apr 29, 2003 1:25:47 GMT -5
Just kind of blatantly here I have to say that S1 is my favorite episode...
Now that that's out of the way I'm going to clarify that remark by saying It's late, I got in a fight today downtown columbus and could face charges for reasons some of you already know and I've eaten entirely too many Peanut M & Ms...
Actually, I have to explain it this way. We saw a pure and perfect Max and Logan building their friendship it S1. Both were walking a dark road and somewhere on those two roads they met at the cross under a blinking red light.
The madness in them during that first season, the insecurities and the worry... The way they truly danced around each other afraid to share their feelings, to bring each other into their worlds for fear of losing that person...
They recognized each other instantly for what they were. Alone...
They wanted someone like them to rely on and exist with and S1 gave that too us.
Cape Haven... BBWW... Red... Flushed...
Just about every episode... we saw them learn something about the other one that not only made them step back and take notice of each other yet somehow brought both of them closer together...
Yeah, I'm a guy and I study martial arts...
I spend my days running around in the woods with large sword like sticks beating on my buddies and vice versa... I get into fights in public places on rare occasions... I grunt and fart and sweat like all men but you know. There is nothing like the love of a good woman to make a man stronger and more powerful than he could have ever hoped to be...
Logan got that with Max.
That's how I see it.
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Post by Aerie on Apr 29, 2003 11:41:34 GMT -5
There is nothing like the love of a good woman to make a man stronger and more powerful than he could have ever hoped to be...
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Post by orchidee on Apr 29, 2003 13:32:50 GMT -5
I spend my days running around in the woods with large sword like sticks beating on my buddies and vice versa... I get into fights in public places on rare occasions... I grunt and fart and sweat like all men but you know. That's a top seller ad ;D polygamist yet ?
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Post by Ginny on Apr 29, 2003 17:30:49 GMT -5
Be careful about that "getting into fights" whether in public or private places. Might get an assault and/or battery charge out of such behavior - that is not good. It is always better to walk away - if anyone calls you "chicken" , just yell out, "You're right - I'm smart." Prudence is the better part of valor.
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Post by mattjay on Jun 6, 2003 0:09:28 GMT -5
In these two eps Max dresses in what I consider to be the definitive Max outfit: jeans, loose leather jacket, T-shirt, and thick-heeled boots. The dress is different, of course, but that's what was so fun about it--seeing tomboy Max in this expensive dress. She's not wearing fingerless gloves (which I hate); her hair is nice and curly; and she has meat on her bones. This is Max as I came to know her. Preach!!! By the way was the weight loss asked for for the 2nd season?
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Post by Aerie on Jun 10, 2003 15:01:53 GMT -5
Oh, the happy memories. I enjoyed and loved all the scenes that have been described. I have copied the Max/Logan scenes from season 1 onto 1 tape - it doesn't fill one 6-hr SLP VHS tape! but the development of their relationship is fun to watch - and re-watch. Ginny - I always wanted to ask you about how many hours/minutes your shipper S-1 tape is. I might make one now from the DVD's just for the fun of it. You might ask why I've taken 6 months to ask you. I'm just slow. ;D www.darkangeltv.com/media/images/da1838.jpg [/img]
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Post by BlackWolf on Jun 10, 2003 15:58:15 GMT -5
I thought I was the only guy who'd actually came out and said on Message Boards he was Pro M/L, Nice to see someone else agrees with me WyldeGod:)
I don't study Martial Arts, but I know a few guys who are way into it, I'm just torturing myself at the gym these days, to bust my ten-hours on computer a day rear end into shape. I might pursue a discipline of martial arts later on. You need someone to help you through all the misery in life, Max and Logan found that in each other, which is why I want to string up the S2 writers. They completed each other and I think that's what we all want, guy or girl.
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